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Extreme Hill Climber Fat Tire MTB Project.

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  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    I definitely like a challenge, but this is very disappointing to me. Should I have anticipated that the freewheel would strip the threads on the freewheel mounting flange? I did not see that coming. I built up two bikes like this when I could have just made one and tested it before diving in even to the point of buying spare parts and building a spare wheel.

    If you're wondering how my spare wheel got caught up in this, I removed the part in the photo in order to put a magnet to it because I thought it might be aluminum. It is steel.

    In practice, however, I will ride the two bikes that I built while I am waiting for all the parts to come, even though the pedals just spin without transferring power to the wheel. I always ghost pedal anyway.

    I love working on bikes, but I don't work on other people's bikes. I spend a lot of money to go to United Bicycle Institute, and they really emphasize to practice, practice, practice. I have now created a lot of work for myself so I look forward to the practice.

    I had high hopes for this hub motor hill climber project, but I am now very hesitant about installing low gearing on this hub motor. Please learn from my costly failed experiments and use mid drives if you will be climbing grades.

    I am afraid that I will now shoot for tall gears. I have previously run a 46T chainring and crappy 16-19-22 3-speed freewheel on this rig, and it spun out at about 21 mph. I will probably choose a White Industries 16T freewheel (the tallest gearing available) so I can at least have a quality freewheel.

    Hopefully the 1 X 1 setup with a 46T chainring and 16T freewheel will not strip the threads again!
    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 09-26-2017, 12:31 AM.

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  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    I have run into a huge problem with this project. I finished both bikes and on both bikes the mechanical gearing is so low that it had enough torque to cause the White Industries freewheel to strip the threads on the freewheel mounting flange (see photos of this part (the photos are not of the stripped parts)).

    I only rode the bikes a few miles before this happened. Apparently the extremely short gearing of the 20T chainring and 23T freewheel multiplied my 150W or so of human power and stripped the Heck out of the threads.

    Allow me to illuminate what a huge problem this is:
    (1) I need to source two more of these flanges (not a commonly available part!).
    (2) I don't imagine that I will be able to remove the freewheel from the flange, which means I cannot free my motor side cover. Hence, I need to find two drive side motor covers (also not a commonly available part).
    (3) The freewheels, which cost me $80 each, are almost certainly ruined. I bought a spare one of these White Industries freewheels (another $80) that I cannot use because I obviously cannot run such short gears on this bike.
    (4) The three 20T chainrings are now useless to me (yes, I bought a spare). There goes another $75.
    (5) When you pull off the drive side cover, you need to reseat the bearing, which would not be a problem if I hadn't laced and trued three of these motors into rims.
    (6) I don't reuse spokes and nipples, so I need to buy 3 X 36 custom length spokes and nipples. That is about $140 for new spokes and nipples.
    (7) I don't mind building wheels, but I will have to take apart and rebuild three wheels which I never even got to use.
    (8) I need to remove and replace the two rear wheels which are on the bike which takes two hours each.
    (9) I will need to wait for the parts to come from overseas.
    (10) I will need to choose taller gears for the new drivetrain which means buying new freewheels and chainrings.
    (11) This frame only allows up to a 46T chainring, so the new gearing (if I go tall) will not be of use to me because I travel at about 35mph.

    I am very frustrated. I would never have imagined that human power could strip these steel threads. Click image for larger version  Name:	freewheel mounting flange 2.JPG Views:	1 Size:	322.4 KB ID:	46367
    Click image for larger version  Name:	freewheel mounting flange 1.JPG Views:	1 Size:	354.3 KB ID:	46368
    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 09-26-2017, 12:34 AM.

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  • Gr8fun
    commented on 's reply
    The 750 mid drive really showed its hill climbing ability when i switched to a 38 tooth. Ring to the 34 cog with the sa igh in low. A cadence of 120 gave maximum speed of 6.5 to7 mph. Worthless for me to pedal above 4 mph. Using only 550 watts. Motor was not hot. Could not have done it with 50 tooth to 34 in low. Power to spare.
    Not even remotely possible to catch his machine on flatland. The fat tires do grip the road better. I felt slippage in the corners while commuters bike looked fully in control.

  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    On both of my bikes, the White Industries freewheel is slipping. I live near White Industries in Petaluma, CA and they want me to bring in my bike and show them the slippage. It really got their attention when I told them that I just finished two identical bikes with their freewheels and both bikes exhibited the same problem. I was hoping for tight, positive engagement while pedaling, not slippage. And the slippage is getting worse every day. The freewheel only lasted three days on one bike and one day on the other.

    It will be cool to see their factory and I will be very curious to see why the freewheel is not engaging positively while trying to pedal forward. They are going to look at the spring, pawls and grease in the freewheel.

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  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    Forum member Gr8 and I made an HD video comparing his mid drive and my hub drive on a very steep grades: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQqe...ature=youtu.be

    The end result is that the mid drive beat the hub motor in the comparison. I am now convinced that mid drives are unequivocally superior to hub motors for steep climbs. My Cromotor has a standard winding and I weigh 100 pounds more than Dan, but I would still choose a mid drive over a hub motor for steep climbs. I built this bike specifically for steep climbs and Dan's mid drive was clearly superior my bike in the comparison.
    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 09-25-2017, 10:27 AM.

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  • Harold
    replied
    You may want to look at the RST Renegade fat bike fork. Comparable to the Bluto and alot less. I see them on ebay in the $350-400 range occassionally. I have one on my Diamondback with a Surly 4.8 for the snow.

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  • calfee20
    replied
    Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post
    I was also alarmed that my regenerative braking was not working at first. I switched in a different harness, but still no regen. I remembered that regen doesn't hardly work at all with a fully charged battery, so I went for a long ride hoping to discharge the battery a little and get the regen to work. I was so happy when it kicked in. Once the battery was discharged a little, I had very strong regen which I like because I hate buying and changing brake pads.
    So when does your regen kick in and is it proportional? Or do you program a certain amount of regen? I am getting ready to wire my first DD bike and the regen setup seems to be what I am thinking about most. I see you use a Cycle analyst. So how does the hook up go? One long wire from the CA to the controller and then all of the handle bar controls and the PAS sensor to the CA?
    Last edited by calfee20; 09-18-2017, 03:10 AM.

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  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    At this point, I still have my 5-pin jumper cable in there. This is not a permanent solution, of course. That 5-pin jumper cable is for the tool box.

    I will have to wire new color matching connectors all the way from the motor to the controller, and I am almost out of small green heat shrink tubing. I used it all covering the brown wires on the precrimped connectors.

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  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    I was also alarmed that my regenerative braking was not working at first. I switched in a different harness, but still no regen. I remembered that regen doesn't hardly work at all with a fully charged battery, so I went for a long ride hoping to discharge the battery a little and get the regen to work. I was so happy when it kicked in. Once the battery was discharged a little, I had very strong regen which I like because I hate buying and changing brake pads.

    Leave a comment:


  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    The precrimped connectors https://www.allelectronics.com/item/...w/leads/1.html are so reliable, but one has to use colored heat shrink tubing to keep the colors straight!

    See the brown wire in the picture? One has to put green heat shrink tubing to completely cover the brown (in the case of a Hall sensor wire).

    Click image for larger version

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  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    I am so relieved that the second bike worked when I tested it, but I had to mess with the Hall sensor wires to get it going.

    Way back when this motor was first wired up, precrimped connectors were used and they have random colors. I guess the electronics technician was in a hurry and he wired blue wires to green wires on the connector. Same quagmire on the controller end.

    This is not good, of course, because I wanted to connect blue to blue, green to green, and yellow to yellow. It got so confusing that I had to make this 5-pin jumper cable connector which made it easy to test different color combos:

    Click image for larger version

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  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    In order to finish this bike, I need to route the wires neatly, install the trunk bag and panniers, and put on wire looming.

    This is one of my two low geared bikes. They are both fixies with 26.52 gear inches with the pedaling spinning out at 6 mph.

    I have two high geared bikes. They are both 5-speeds with 169.62 gear inches in the tallest gear and 68.91 gear inches in the granny gear. The pedaling spins out at 45.5 mph in the tallest gear and 15.6 mph in the granny gear.
    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 09-17-2017, 01:18 PM.

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  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    I had one of these all wired up for testing on Monday, but I was too busy/afraid to test it until today. After I made one adjustment to the settings, it tested a-okay.

    The setting that I changed was the "Number of Poles" (that is, motor poles) in the CA V3. I completely redid the wiring (which took a long time!), and part of that was converting my CA from a spoke magnet/sensor to the method where the speed is calculated by the CA using the motor RPM, which is why I had to input the number of poles. This Cromotor, like a QS Motor, has 26 poles.

    When I first tested the bike, it ran like crap. I was alarmed, and when I went in the settings for Number of Poles in the CA, the default was 1. I input 26 and all is well.

    Like I said, I was afraid to test it. I imagined all kinds of problems that I would have, beginning with no electrical or motor power. I was ready and willing to call in my guru to save me. Frankly, I am surprised that it tested a-okay, but I was so careful with every single solder joint.

    The pedaling spins out at 6 mph, but the motor is a beast. I have the current limited to 30A in the 72V system. I need my ebikes to at least sort of ride like a bike rather than a motorcycle.

    Here is a picture from Test Day: Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_2720.JPG Views:	1 Size:	2.76 MB ID:	45477


    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 09-17-2017, 01:10 PM.

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  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    The task of ordering custom wide axles is a long process. I feel like I am asking a favor of Zelena Vozila, and I feel lucky that they are accommodating me. I can't help but realize how much easier a mid drive motor would be, having to only deal with the bottom bracket width.

    I am just sitting down down to standardize my Lyen Mark 2 controllers so that all controllers, 3-speed switches, CAs, throttles and e-brakes can be used on any of my four ebikes. The controllers have some white Molex-style connectors that I am not crazy about; I prefer JST-SM connectors.

    Among other reasons, I want to standardize all of the electrical components and wiring for ease of troubleshooting. I have often exploited the "remove and replace" shortcut to identify faulty parts.
    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 08-28-2017, 08:57 AM.

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  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    Installing the battery boxes took a lot longer than I thought. I had to get them in just the right position for maximum concealment. I have Delrin backing plates on these frames because the steel pannier mounting strap (part of the frame) is on the outside of the bike which makes it hard to get to the nuts. The Delrin backing plate places the nuts in full view and provides easy access with the open end wrench. I trimmed all of the Delrin backing plates as much as possible in order to reduce weight.

    I also had to make an attachment to the battery box which keeps the box from possibly pushing in the Singleator. I used a black knob.

    I have crashed on bikes before and pushed in the derailleur; this puts a strain on the derailleur hanger. Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_2643.JPG Views:	1 Size:	256.3 KB ID:	43599
    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 08-27-2017, 02:06 PM.

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