Michigan state parks E-bikes prohibited

[Green Werks]

Yes, if you wanted to challenge it in court feel free to do so, but the guy writing you a ticket won't care.

Dude you include the guy writing you the ticket in the lawsuit for violating your rights when lawyers smell blood they go after every one involved
I guarantee you he will care when he looses his job and the feds come down on him and the park
this topic is stupid kid stuff there is much better ways of dealing with this kind of BS

[MandalorianX]

Just go to the dirt bike trails instead. I'm in phoenix, bike snob capital of the planet earth. When I start getting too much heat for having my haibike or bbshd diamondback on south mountain, going slower than the sponsored mtn bikers, being more respectful to the hikers, and having more fun than everyone, I just go to the moto trails for a while. No haters there really ever. Only fun, and you can let loose completely and nobody gives a damn. :D

[max_volt]

Just go to the dirt bike trails instead. I'm in phoenix, bike snob capital of the planet earth. When I start getting too much heat for having my haibike or bbshd diamondback on south mountain, going slower than the sponsored mtn bikers, being more respectful to the hikers, and having more fun than everyone, I just go to the moto trails for a while. No haters there really ever. Only fun, and you can let loose completely and nobody gives a damn. :D

The thing is you would have to go way up north. Those trails are in the northern lower or the UP.

[CPG]

I got passed this morning by two young guys on a uphill climb, as I was being real careful to ride "like a regular bike." Too careful I guess! In my defense, I was also wanting to preserve my juice as much as possible, not being sure how far I was going. An area new to me, in another state, no other ebikes, that I saw anyway. Sure, I could have caught up and passed them, but I might as well waved a big sign saying EBIKE RIDER. Everyone else I passed by on the trail were super friendly, though they likely didn't notice my motor. No big deal as usual.

The embarrassing thing happened on the way down, I went down when my front wheel got sideways, and have no excuse other then I let my guard down as the ride was almost over (23 miles). As luck would have it, before I could get it back up and sorted out (had to figure out which way to turn the handlebars as they got turned around, ha ha) a guy rode up and asked if I was OK. And if needed any help etc. etc., which really annoyed me as I didn't and was pissed he saw my screw up, but he was a real nice guy so THAT made me feel like a dofuss. Then he, said "hey you got a motor, that's cheating," but just laughed, no condemnation at all. I wanted to yell at him as he rode off that I've been riding about 20 miles a day, all trails, for the last two weeks and very little, hardly any, of it established bike trails but really boon docking it in remote areas, with no issues, but unfortunately could not and I'm sure he told the story to his buddies about the old fart going down, on an ebike. Of course it had nothing to do with it being an ebike, just a regular old bike fall. Back to the boonies tomorrow!

[JPLabs]

I think it's very cool they passed you. When I come up upon a biker who is slowing under labor, but trying to go as fast as he can, I don't pass. Likewise, I'm not the fast guy out there, and don't want to be seen as one when the climb gets tough, either. 'Ebiker equals inconsiderate speed demon' is the image I DON'T want to have associated with myself on the local trails, if you know what I mean. If I'm not passed by a hardcore biker once in a while, then I'm going too fast; my personal view. I go out of my way not to spoil anybody else's fun. Getting passed by a relaxed ebiker while climbing your heart out isn't fun for a bicyclist. I learned pretty quickly I will not likely get a warm reception at the top of the hill if I pass folks, but I will if they pass me. Hmm....

So, don't feel like you've been outperformed if you get passed - instead, be proud you weren't abusing the power and squashing the fun of someone working harder than you were to reach the peak. That's satisfying, too.

[max_volt]

new laws in Michigan

http://www.thetimesherald.com/story/sports/2017/11/02/eckert-michigan-makes-e-bikes-legal/826197001/

[Zippy]

Similar to laws in other states it looks like. Do the laws which say 28 mph max mean any bike capable of going faster than that is technically illegal?

[JCHobbes]

Here is the law as written http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...17-PA-0139.htm

Max power for all classes is 750 watts, so my BBSHD bikes are illegal. Class 3 bike is 28mph max, pedal assist only, so separate throttle is illegal.

(iii) Class 3 electric bicycle. As used in this subparagraph, “class 3 electric bicycle” means an electric bicycle that is equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that disengages or ceases to function when the electric bicycle reaches a speed of 28 miles per hour.

Ebikes are still prohibited on "natural" trails unless otherwise granted by local authority or agency.

(10) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, an individual shall not operate an electric bicycle on a trail that is designated as nonmotorized and that has a natural surface tread that is made by clearing and grading the native soil with no added surfacing materials. A local authority or agency of this state having jurisdiction over a trail described in this subsection may allow and regulate the operation of an electric bicycle on that trail.

[max_volt]

What about HB 4781 signed on 10-31?

[JCHobbes]

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2017-2018/publicact/htm/2017-PA-0138.htm

(c) Except as otherwise provided in this subdivision, an individual shall not operate an electric bicycle on a trail that is specifically designated as nonmotorized and that has a natural surface tread that is made by clearing and grading the native soil with no added surfacing materials. A local authority or agency of this state having jurisdiction over a trail described in this subdivision may allow the operation of an electric bicycle on that trail.

[calfee20]

Good thing I have no desire to go to Michigan.

[max_volt]

Your loss, my freind

[naturebiker]

Fort Custer E-Bike Riding. We have camped in the park many times and always ride our e-bikes there. Although this last year we found the local mountain bikers at odds with us riding on what they claim are "their" trails. Last summer we ask the park ranger about e-bikes and they were clueless. We sent a letter asking for clarification and they ignored us. From additional research, we have found that we are welcome to use any road or trail that is not marked specifically banning your class of e-bike. We have walked trails at Fort Custer for many years and most seem to allow all kinds of bikes and even horse trail usage. By far, use by horse trailing cause the most trail damage... So don't be afraid to go back to Fort Custer, but know what class of e-bike you have, and watch for signs that may limit use in some areas.

[calfee20]

I would have a hard time remaining civil if someone said these are "my trails".

[max_volt]

Thems fightin words

[jaymz77]

I am starting to see here in Washington state that most state and county park trails are becoming bike free. I have a stealthy BBS-02/52v Mighty-mini MTB that is hard to tell it has power but if bike are simply prohibited, then it doesn't matter if it is powered. Really sad because I have biked these trails the last 20 years but here it seems the down hill bikers (which I did for years) is tearing up the trails and having close encounters with hikers.. you know how it is, one or two bad apple spoils the bunch. I like morning rides, so I ride them anyways :)

[Hard Tail]

Hi Fattys. Treat the sign with the contempt it deserves. You're out there making the best of your situation and that's that's commendable. I,ll have a beer and pizza in solidarity. Ride on mate.

[JCHobbes]

It's tempting to ride there anyway, but as violent as people have become, I might get shot, stabbed, or beat and left for dead by someone / group of someones who gets angry 'cuz I'm ignoring the rules.

[JCHobbes]

Made acquaintance with another e-biker here in my town. He took me on some local trails where e-bikes are permitted. I took my 20" bmx with 48 volt, 1500 watt bafang mid drive. This was the first time I rode dirt trails with any of my e-bikes. I had a blast! He has a 20" bmx with 52 volt, 1500 watt hub motor. His bike TROUNCES the bafang mid drive. Even climbing steep grades he pulled away from me. It's still awesome to finally know someone local with an e-bike to ride with. :)

[JPLabs]

Made acquaintance Iwith another e-biker here in my town. He took me on some local trails where e-bikes are permitted. I took my 20" bmx with 48 volt, 1500 watt bafang mid drive. This was the first time I rode dirt trails with any of my e-bikes. I had a blast! He has a 20" bmx with 52 volt, 1500 watt hub motor. His bike TROUNCES the bafang mid drive. Even climbing steep grades he pulled away from me. It's still awesome to finally know someone local with an e-bike to ride with. :)

Hey, cool! Glad to hear that. May I ask, what place did you find? Which dirt trails do welcome e-bikes in MI? Are they extensive enough to keep a guy entertained for a day? Might be worth a drive for me!

I'm surprised at his hub performance, although I've never ridden one off-road and aggressively at the same time. Do you think you are optimally geared on yours, for the conditions when you 'raced up hill'? Do you know if he has more than 30A available? Or, if his is a geared hub? I wouldn't have expected that result. But, I suppose for the right conditions, optimal speeds and loads, etc, a direct drive motor can be even better/more efficient. Larger motor, no chain, all that.

The magic of mid drive is being able to pick gears to match conditions, but it's got more losses, too. And a direct drive hub can have pretty good cooling. A 20" BMX might be a great application, I'd love to ride that.

[calfee20]

Most of the DD hub speed guys are using fast wound motors with smaller tires. The smaller tire is like low gearing but then they spin them like crazy for the top speed. They will push 50 to 150 amps through them or more. I have put 70 amps at 80 volts or so through 2 different hub motors and I was using a small 12 fet controller. A BBSHD can't compete with that unless you encounter a real STEEP LONG hill. Then the BBSHD might prevail.

[JCHobbes]

Sorry I haven't replied sooner. I don't get on the board much.

The trails are just east of Battle Creek in Emmett Township, Calhoun County, MI. The primary trail we ride is approximately 5.5 miles one way. Smooth dirt trails, no challenge except some grades. There are some wooden walkways that are slippery as greased ice if they are wet. There are several side trails that could be considered somewhat "technical" or more challenging. Here is a PDF of the area.

https://www.calhouncountymi.gov/assets/1/19/County_Parks_Brochure_Map2018.pdf

Coming from Detroit - Take I-94 west to exit 104. Turn left to Citgo station, then turn right on Michigan Ave.
Coming from Chicago - Take I-94 east to exit 100. Turn left, go approximately 2 miles to Columbia ave (2nd traffic light, 5 lane road), turn right. Columbia turns into Michigan Avenue, evidenced by the split at the left side of the PDF map.

Be vigilant about watching for walkers. There are many people who walk the trails.

Historic Bridge Park is a great place to park vehicle and start ride. Bring grub for post ride cookout. :D The trail also runs next to a McDonald's on East Michigan Ave (middle of the map). Dave, the guy I ride with, lives 2 blocks from the northern end of the trails, so I go to his house to start ride. If you ride to the very north end of the trail, the Battle Creek Linear park paved path system (bike friendly) is about 1 mile west. The map has blue squares at top left corner showing way to linear park.

The map shows several parking areas. Personally I would recommend parking in the back of McD's or at Historic Bridge park.

I don't know the brand name of the guys hub motor, but it resembles a magic pie direct drive.

I have a 20" Mongoose Kong fat bike with stock gearing in back and 42T chain ring on the BBSHD. When on the trails I was constantly shifting, to the point it was annoying. I don't want to strain the BBSHD and burn it up so I gear down when climbing hills. My bike tops out at 28mph per radar cart. Dave claims his tops out at 35 mph, which I believe. Our first (and only) drag race seemde like matching up a corvette and a lawn mower.

[JPLabs]

Hey, thanks for all that great location info! Definitely sounds like a potential destination for a day trip.