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How to connect QS motor temp sensor to Cycle Analyst V3?

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    How to connect QS motor temp sensor to Cycle Analyst V3?

    I have always had Cromotors and the temp sensor from the motor has two wires (red and black) which are wired directly to my Grin Tech Cycle Analyst V3. That is easy.

    I just bought two QS Motors (which I thought would be the same as Cromotors). They have two temp sensor wires (which happen to both be silver) coming out of the motor.

    These motors are apparently set up for use with a Kelly controller. This is the part that is very different from the Cromotor: one of these silver wires goes to the primary 6-pin connector, and the other silver temp sensor wire goes to the spare 6-pin connector.

    Let's just look at the primary 6-pin connector. 5 of the wires are the Hall sensor wires. I don't use these 6-pin connectors. I have already soldered on a 5-pin JST for my Hall wires (which goes to my Lyen controller (easy)). So now I have this one silver wire which goes...where?

    The spare 6-pin connector is the same. 5 (spare) Hall sensor wires and a silver temp sensor wire. Let's assume that all of those wires will be used only if and when my first set of Halls goes bad.

    #2
    Edited email conversation with QS Motor:

    Me:

    "Robert,

    I am wondering how to wire up the temp sensor for the two motors you sold me to a Grin Tech Cycle Analyst V3. This Cycle Analyst has a 2-pin connector for the temp sensor that is wired directly to the motor.
    I have always had Cromotors and they have two wires for the temp sensor (black and red) coming out of the motor. I wired those into a 2-pin connector and connected that to the 2-pin Cycle Analyst temp sensor connector. I don't think it matters if the black and red get mixed up because I have done this with 6 motors and the temp sensor always worked.
    The QS motors have two silver wires. The factory connections had one silver wire in a 6-pin connector with the Hall sensor wires. My friend connected these to his Kelly controller, but I use a Lyen (Xie Chang) controller where my temp sensor wires are connected directly to the Cycle Analyst. Do you know how to connect your silver temp sensor wires? Should I try the two temp sensor wires in a 2-pin connection like on a Cromotor?

    Thanks,
    Erik"

    QS Motor:

    "Erik,

    The temperature sensor wire is the silver wire, but I am also not sure how to connect the Cycle Analyst directly to the motor because the temperature sensor on the motor matches the Kelly controller.

    However, the motor has two groups of sensor connectors, you just need to use one group, as the other is for backup.

    So you can try to connect one Silver wire to the Red wire from the Cycle Analyst to see if that works because we don't know very much about the Cycle Analyst.

    Thanks,
    Robert"

    Comment


      #3
      In the photo, you see the factory connectors for the primary and secondary 6-pin connectors. Since this photo was taken, I have taken the 5 Hall sensor wires (black, red, yellow, green and blue) and soldered them on to a 5-pin JST.

      I imagine that all the wires in the spare 6-pin connection are not relevant to the conversation here.

      Click image for larger version

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      Comment


        #4
        Again, my Grin Tech Cycle Analyst V3 has two wires coming out of it in order to be connected directly to two motor temperature sensor wires.

        My understanding is that a temperature sensor is just a temperature dependent resistor so one needs an electrical signal from both ends of the thermistor in order to detect changes in the resistance as the motor heats up.

        I can't imagine how the QS Motor temp sensor works with just one wire; it must be a different thermistor than what is used on a Cromotor. Maybe I could wire the one silver wire along with a ground wire (I am not entirely sure how to create this ground wire) into the two wires on the Cycle Analyst.

        A really stupid idea would be to wire the two silver temp sensor wires into the two wires from the Cycle Analyst, but the factory said in the email conversation that "the motor has two groups of sensor connectors". So one wouldn't wire the "signal wires" from two different temp sensors into the two wires from the Cycle Analyst, obviously.
        Last edited by commuter ebikes; 11-11-2017, 09:17 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          An electronics guru says:

          " The temp sensor is likely grounded to the Hall sensor ground. So it has a ground return. Should not be hard to make it work. Figure out which CA wire is not ground and hook it to that."

          This is the only explanation that would make sense.

          I will wire one (hot) silver temp sensor from the motor along with a motor ground wire to a 2-pin connector and connect that to my 2-pin connector from the CA V3.

          The temp sensor wires emanating from the CA V3 are yellow and black, so I will temporarily assume that the black is for ground.

          Now it is only a matter of determining what to use for a motor ground wire. I have two candidates, both of which are Hall sensor ground wires (from the primary and secondary Hall sensors). I wonder if there is a danger of frying my motor or CA if I don't wire it up correctly.

          These motors are spares, so I won't be testing this for awhile.
          Last edited by commuter ebikes; 11-13-2017, 09:54 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            This was solved by wiring up (A) one of the silver temp sensor wires and (B) the ground wire from the spare Halls into a 2-pin connector. That 2-pin connector goes directly to the Cycle Analyst temp sensor connector (which happens to be a black and yellow JST connector).

            The ground wire from the primary Hall sensor would have also worked, but why splice into that in when you have another ground wire there ready to go, single and ready to mingle?

            Either of the two silver temp sensor wires along with any motor (would be a Hall) ground wire into a 2-pin connector would work.

            I wired the motor ground wire to the black CA wire which I could hardly help doing because I use precrimped connectors https://www.allelectronics.com/item/...%3A1%3BN%3B%7D and the 2-pin wires are red and black.

            Those precrimped connectors are highly recommended! They come in 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6-pin. I never have to crimp JST connectors! I use colored heat shrink tubing to make the wires on the precrimped connectors the color that I want them to be.
            Last edited by commuter ebikes; 11-21-2017, 11:34 PM.

            Comment


            • cboy
              cboy commented
              Editing a comment
              Once you got this wired up, did you have to make any changes in the CA set up program to match up with the KTY83/122 sensor in the QS hub or did it read the temps correctly?
              Last edited by cboy; 07-09-2018, 09:13 PM.

            • commuter ebikes
              commuter ebikes commented
              Editing a comment
              For the first few minutes, the temperature was inaccurate. After running the motor for a bit ( it was up on repair stand), the temperature read fine and has ever since.

            #7
            That's great to hear. Thanks for the quick response. Did you have to go into the CA software settings at all to identify the QS temp sensor or did the CA do it all pretty much on its own once you had it wired up? Thanks also for the detail on how you wired yours. Very helpful.

            Comment


              #8
              Originally posted by cboy View Post
              That's great to hear. Thanks for the quick response. Did you have to go into the CA software settings at all to identify the QS temp sensor or did the CA do it all pretty much on its own once you had it wired up? Thanks also for the detail on how you wired yours. Very helpful.
              Fortunately, the CA recognized up the sensor immediately.

              I was prepared to switch the red and black wires, but after wiring up five of them and seeing that they all worked fine, I realized that you cannot hook up a temperature sensor backwards because a thermistor is just a temperature sensitive resistor.

              What kind of controller are you using?
              Last edited by commuter ebikes; 07-10-2018, 09:19 AM.

              Comment


                #9
                Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post


                What kind of controller are you using?
                I'm using two Kelly KLS 7230S controllers with two QS Motors hub wheels. This is a three wheeler with a hub motor in each rear wheel. A build journal is at my web site https://hotrodjalopy.com/hot-rod-jal...r-trike-build/

                As I began wiring this up using your thread, I discovered yet another issue. It doesn't appear I can wire the temperature sensors from both hub motors to the Cycle Analyst. From what I can tell most builders using two hub motors only wire one temp sensor from one wheel to the CA. My concern is that the other wheel might, for some unforeseen reason, overheat. I realize this is getting away from your original thread, but I'm wondering if I can wire one temp sensor to the CA and wire the other temp sensor to its controller. The KLS 7230S will shut down power if the hub motor overheats and thus wiring to the controller would provide a safety backup in the even the wheel NOT connected to the CA might overheat. The question is, would wiring the two temp sensors differently create other electronic issues.

                Comment


                  #10
                  Originally posted by cboy View Post

                  I'm using two Kelly KLS 7230S controllers with two QS Motors hub wheels. This is a three wheeler with a hub motor in each rear wheel. A build journal is at my web site https://hotrodjalopy.com/hot-rod-jal...r-trike-build/

                  As I began wiring this up using your thread, I discovered yet another issue. It doesn't appear I can wire the temperature sensors from both hub motors to the Cycle Analyst. From what I can tell most builders using two hub motors only wire one temp sensor from one wheel to the CA. My concern is that the other wheel might, for some unforeseen reason, overheat. I realize this is getting away from your original thread, but I'm wondering if I can wire one temp sensor to the CA and wire the other temp sensor to its controller. The KLS 7230S will shut down power if the hub motor overheats and thus wiring to the controller would provide a safety backup in the even the wheel NOT connected to the CA might overheat. The question is, would wiring the two temp sensors differently create other electronic issues.
                  I would definitely assume that both motors would be the same temp due to the symmetry you have their on your crotch rocket.

                  If it were me, I would terminate the temp sensor wires from the second motor and figure that the temperature value from the display is valid for both motors.

                  Comment


                    #11
                    Originally posted by cboy View Post

                    I'm using two Kelly KLS 7230S controllers with two QS Motors hub wheels. This is a three wheeler with a hub motor in each rear wheel. A build journal is at my web site https://hotrodjalopy.com/hot-rod-jal...r-trike-build/

                    As I began wiring this up using your thread, I discovered yet another issue. It doesn't appear I can wire the temperature sensors from both hub motors to the Cycle Analyst. From what I can tell most builders using two hub motors only wire one temp sensor from one wheel to the CA. My concern is that the other wheel might, for some unforeseen reason, overheat. I realize this is getting away from your original thread, but I'm wondering if I can wire one temp sensor to the CA and wire the other temp sensor to its controller. The KLS 7230S will shut down power if the hub motor overheats and thus wiring to the controller would provide a safety backup in the even the wheel NOT connected to the CA might overheat. The question is, would wiring the two temp sensors differently create other electronic issues.
                    I would definitely assume that both motors would be the same temp due to the symmetry you have there on your crotch rocket.

                    If it were me, I would terminate the temp sensor wires from the second motor and figure that the temperature value from the display is valid for both motors.

                    Comment


                      #12
                      Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post

                      I would definitely assume that both motors would be the same temp due to the symmetry you have there on your crotch rocket.

                      If it were me, I would terminate the temp sensor wires from the second motor and figure that the temperature value from the display is valid for both motors.
                      That may be what I end up doing. Under normal circumstances I think you are correct that both motors would be under the same load and producing the same amount of heat. But I'd still like a bit of protection for that un-monitored motor in the event of a mechanical or electrical failure of some sort...something abnormal rather than normal. I'll poke around on the web a bit more and see if it would be possible to wire that second motor sensor to the controller.

                      Comment


                        #13
                        Originally posted by cboy View Post

                        That may be what I end up doing. Under normal circumstances I think you are correct that both motors would be under the same load and producing the same amount of heat. But I'd still like a bit of protection for that un-monitored motor in the event of a mechanical or electrical failure of some sort...something abnormal rather than normal. I'll poke around on the web a bit more and see if it would be possible to wire that second motor sensor to the controller.
                        You will definitely find something. At least a thermometer. That thermistor is pretty common and the design of such a thermistor couldn't be more simple.

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post

                          You will definitely find something.
                          I did some asking around and the general consensus is that there is no electrical problem wiring on of the wheel temp sensors to the CA and wiring the other wheel temp sensor to its controller. So that's the way I've wired it. Thanks for all your help getting me over the hump on this one.

                          Comment


                            #15
                            Originally posted by cboy View Post

                            I did some asking around and the general consensus is that there is no electrical problem wiring on of the wheel temp sensors to the CA and wiring the other wheel temp sensor to its controller. So that's the way I've wired it. Thanks for all your help getting me over the hump on this one.
                            You said you were running two motors. Do you have two controllers in this system?

                            Comment

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