Stans no Tubes

[calfee20]

[Chris Duke]

Impressive isn't it!
I've been using it in some of my tubes, no flats yet.
I have Slime in other bikes, no flats yet.
I have nothing in some other bikes, and sometimes flats, and sometimes no flats.
Best I can figure out having done research on the available two products is that they work differently on different types of tire ruptures.
No data yet on the tires I've used either on. No flats yet with tubes.

[Felix D'Kat]

That's very cool, I wish they had shown the tyre pressures as the holes were punched in, must be decent pressure though because the stuff was squirting out quite a bit.

I have a few old tyres and rims laying about...now what can I get up to over the next few days :-)

[AZguy]

I'm a stans convert but it does have it's downsides.

It's a nasty toxic mess. Wear gloves and have good ventilation!
I run it with tubes, I can't imagine the mess it would make tubeless. The tube is like a stans condom.
It messes up the wheel balance a lot.
It makes it very difficult to adjust pressure because the valve gets gummed up.
Should be topped of every 6-12mo depending on how much you run.

OTOH here in AZ with no protection I'd be hard pressed to not get a flat every ride or best case every other ride. I ran with Mr. Tuffys and that helped but I'd still be getting flats - depending on the time of the year and where I'm riding it might be a lot or not so much. I've tried slime in the past and it is too hit or miss for me and it leaks a fair bit our before it seals. The stans resembles super thin skim milk that instantly curdles into rubber cement (unlike the weird fibrous slime stuff) and seals without leaking at all.

The tires I have now have been running stans since June and have large visible thorns at least every square inch (4.7" tires). I'm certain there's far more smaller ones.

Tire pressure as always drops over time with or without stans - nature of porous rubber, etc. Every month or so I pull the valve cores, clean them out, and re-air the tires. But adjusting air in the field, either up or down, is a pain. Airing down will leak out some of the stans, clogs the valve and who wants to gum up their gauge with it? Trying to air up is a pain because inevitably the valve is restricted by the stuff.

Even with the cons, the pros faaaaar exceed them - at least here in AZ where flats reign supreme - especially if you off-road at all...

[calfee20]

Thanks for all of the input. I started the thread for exactly this reason. Are there any tire gauges that work better with the goop.

How bad is the tire balance problem. It must be worse with fat tires.

[JPLabs]

I run Stan's tubeless. My perspective is different than AZguys, in some ways. For one thing I'm in Michigan, where it doesn't get cooked dry as fast as in AZ, I'm sure.

It's just latex and anti-freeze, mildly toxic, but not nasty, as far as I know? Just sticky. Kind of like diluted white glue the consistency of milk, if you haven't experienced it. It is water soluable and cleans up easily with a hose. No solvents, not really fumes that I have noticed, and I just used some again. Smells less than latex paint, frankly, IMO.

If you don't have a hose when dealing with it, or if you let it dry on things, you will get sticky and have a mess! But with a quick rinse it's no biggie.

Where we agree strongly is in the valve stem issues. It will plug them up, yes. You NEED serviceable valves to use this successfully. The kind which let you remove the presta core to clean it. Or Schraeder. But don't try it with regular Presta tubes that don't let you remove the core, you will be screwed when it plugs up. Putting the stem at the bottom when letting air out is important, then waiting a moment, seems to help too, so sealant won't flow out the stem.

Every once in a while I need to remove a valve core, peel the rubber off it, and run a pipe cleaner through the stem, to clear it out. Once a month, maybe. I can still ADD air, but it comes out so slowly that I need to service the cores. I run a batch for the summer, then put in fresh when I mount winter tires. If I change tires with fresh sealant inside, I just re-use it. A turkey baster and big syringe help keep it all clean.

Also, on my fat bike, I swear it IMPROVES wheel balance. Maybe it was removing the tubes, but my first ride, tubeless, eliminated the wobble I had previously felt on smooth roads at higher speeds. I noticed that right away. Maybe I just had a poorly balanced tube.... I run 6-8 oz per tire, though, and can't feel the least imbalance at speed, with Sowshow XLs, so not an issue with fat tires, as far as I can tell. Once it forms rubber balls inside to seal leaks, then it will degrade balance, progressively as more form. With the 100s of thorns in AZguys' tires, that may be the reason for our difference in perspectives about balance issues.

Now, I change my tire pressure on every ride, practically, so I stay on top of it. If you let it go for weeks, don't have serviceable cores, and find yourself with a low tire you can't pump up, you will not have a good experience with it. If you use it without a hose or sink to clean as you go, you will dislike the mess. But use it as I suggest, and I think you might like Stan's.

I 100% agree that it's benefits far outweigh the drawbacks, I'm just observing some workarounds that help. In all, TUBELESS with Stans is EASIER than running tubes, for me. And the bike rides better. I have not tried it with tubes, and don't mean to contradict AZguy's firsthand experience with that configuration, either. Just adding mine.

I have never been stopped by a flat in close to 6k miles. I HAVE had a few punctures. I love the stuff! I have bad luck pinching tubes during service, too. No more!

EDIT: I don't carry sealant on the bike, I've never lost more than a few drops. But I do carry a valve core tool and pipe cleaners. A whittled twig has worked in a pinch, too, before I figured out about pipe cleaners. The tough, scratchy ones for cleaning pipes, not the soft fuzzy colorful 'art' ones your kids might have.....

[calfee20]

Thanks again

[AZguy]

I notice an ammonia smell which I found very nasty - I may just have a sensitive nose. Might be interesting to find an MSDS...

You are spot on with having a water source handy! When I got some on my hands and didn't clean it off they started to get red, itchy and hot. Got some on my clothes and didn't rinse and they are permanently stained. Some got on the ceiling (please don't ask =] ) and there's still a stain there. Before it starts it's curdling and drying out it does rinse off very easily though.

My wheels were not well-balanced when I put the stans in so I may be a bad data point. On the advise of the fellow that convinced me to embrace the stans I put half a quart in each tire (he was trying to get me to go for a full quart in each!) and that also may have contributed to my experience (and I'm not going to put that much in next time). They were noticeably worse after putting it in. I've got new tires going on soon so I'll check the bare wheel balance, and the before and after stans to see what I get this time.

[JPLabs]

Thanks for that input.

Hmm, OK, MSDS was interesting. They only LIST PG (Antifreeze, basically) and Latex. But there are:

Unknown acute toxicity: 25 percent of the mixture consists of ingredient(s) of unknown toxicity.

So, maybe ammonia and solvents, I grant you that. I bet smell is more noticeable for you, there, it's way below freezing here, less volatility. And if you have latex sensitivity, this would be something to be extra careful with. Anyway, I guess it's NOT just antifreeze and latex, reading the fine print more closely, see link:

https://www.notubes.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/GIS-004_R3_Stans_Tire_Sealant_SDS_GHS.pdf

[AZguy]

Interesting - 25% VOC's (prolly what I smell?) but a low vapor pressure (at 20C) so even at 25-30C (I do all my bike work in the house) it shouldn't be that bad.


I never realized that some presta tubes didn't have removable cores - I'll need to pay good attention - thanks!


I also use the prickly pipe cleaners. I've got 1000-1500mi on the tires since stans and I blatantly ride through the goat heads, tumbleweeds and other prickly sorts out here (there's no shortage!) and no issues with air loss.

Did stans eliminate tire work? No but it sure changed it. It's a lot easier and while I still carry a pump on the bike it's not been used since and it has pretty much eliminated any concern about having to deal with a flat...

[JPLabs]

Another brief sealant trial report: I once tried some thick, red, Tubeless tire sealant in a squeeze bottle from the auto parts store, when I was out of Stans and the LBS was closed. That stuff was not suitable. Too thick for the valve, and when I went to change the tire out, the tire GLUED itself together when I stomped it to break the bead. What a sticky mess. Don't try thick automotive sealant in tubeless tires!

[paxtana]

I just leave a can of bicycle fix-a-flat in my battery bag.



Taking a performance hit from adding to the rotating mass is not something I'm into, generally.

One of my bikes does use Slime, marathon plus tires, the whole nine yards. But man does it slow things down.

Wouldn't mind trying the energy return wheel as an interesting alternative, but the company isn't too big on answering their emails so oh well

[JPLabs]

Stans doesn't add weight.. Well, not if used as intended.

I don't add sealant TO tubes, I replace tubes with sealant which weighs a lot less; in that case, less weight, better performance. Tires work better, too.

[AZguy]

With fat tires / electric fat bikes a little more rotating mass is not terribly important since they aren't very high-performance to begin with. =]

[JPLabs]

With fat tires / electric fat bikes a little more rotating mass is not terribly important since they aren't very high-performance to begin with. =]

Rolling resistance is so terrible when run soft with tubes, that it SEEMS high performance to ditch them, though!

[AZguy]

Someday maybe I'll try tubeless. I just don't feel compelled. Maybe it's worth it. I've got tubeless rims and tires, I guess I'd just need the valve stems.

I'm scared ;-}

[JPLabs]

So was I! The one thing which helped to spur me on is the memory of the (several) time's I've pinched tubes and had flats, due to my own clumsy installation and use.

I didn't try ghetto anything, I used Stan's tape on Tubeless rims with tubeless tires. (Mulfut rims, Snowshoe tires). The tubless tires have a little lip to help seat them. If I wasn't using an air compressor I would have a hard time seating the tires, that's the hardest part. I remove the valve from the stem, get the tire as close to aligned as I can, soap up the rim and tire, then use an air blow off to shoot air into the stem. This works best for me. Once they are seated, they stay seated and can even be hard to remove. The beads 'ping' over the rim at 25-40 PSI and lock on tight. Then deflate, add sealant, re-inflate, and spin/shake/ride until the leaks stop.

Even tubeless tires will leak a lot at first. Little bubbles and beads of sealant coming right through the sidewalls. This stops almost completely withing an hour or so, sometimes a lot faster. And the tires get sealed after first use, so simpler after that.

It's a pain to do, for sure. Trade-offs. Sounds like your setup is perfectly functional, and if you aren't worried about range, maybe not worth it for your situation.

That stuff has got to dry out faster with only a tire, no tube, and more so in AZ, so I would think it won't work as well for you as for me, frankly, in terms of longevity, if nothing else.

if what you have works great, well, don't mess with success.

[calfee20]

There is a very good LBS about an hour away from me and while I was there getting a set of Jones Bars the owner? and I started talking about Stans. He has a Surly Fat bike with Stans and has had no flats in 4 to 5 years. He is a "no car guy" He uses the ghetto installation method with 24" tubes. http://electricbike-blog.com/2015/06...nutes-of-work/

I am going to try this this spring.

[JPLabs]

Just to explain for those not familiar, "Ghetto Installation" here is using a tube as the rim sealing method, instead of tape. The tube isn't used to hold air, just to seal the spoke holes and beads, for 'non-tubeless' systems, or for cheaping out on a tubeless setup. I'm not saying it's worse, just cheaper. And maybe harder.

I realize the link shows this, just pointing out the particulars.

[calfee20]

One thing it does though is it keeps the Stans surrounded with rubber and off of the rim, nipples, and spokes

[JPLabs]

The tape system does the same, all of that is covered. Just tape and tire in contact.

[commuter ebikes]

I know this has been asked before, but does Stan's make a comparatively effective product for tubes?

I have four bikes set up for tubes, and I don't mind buying and working with tubes. I am using the green slime now (with darned near 100% success), but the green slime wouldn't survive the abuse in the video.

[JPLabs]

AZ guy is using it successfully with tubes! I didn't think it was for tubes, myself, but learned here it is apparently pretty effective that way.

[commuter ebikes]

AZ guy is using it successfully with tubes! I didn't think it was for tubes, myself, but learned here it is apparently pretty effective that way.

I will try this product in my tubes and report here how it does at 20psi with all my tire liners.

[calfee20]

The idea is to get rid of your tire liners, Why not try one of your bikes with Stans and no liners.