11 reasons to buy from LUNA in the USA instead of China vendor

[Eric Luna]

Here is an aritcle i am thinking about publishing...what do you think guys?

Luna is my new born baby and I want her to stand the test of time. My biggest threat is compeitors overseas.

These days a lot of people think that buying from china save money. Right now i dont see the sense when it comes to ebike stuff..... I

But when i hear things like the china government is giving china trade companies a 17 percent kick back for every product they buy to ship to the USA it makes my stomach roll. (this is illegal trade by the way)

11 reasons to buy from Luna in the USA instead of a china vendor.

1. Pricing..... more often than not Luna can come close or beat china on pricing on an identical item. Remember usually you are buying from a trading company on alibaba or alibaba express..not factory direct.
2. After sales support- Shipping back to china for a refund or a repair is realistically not going to happen.
3. Loyalty to the USA-..support a usa company that is trying to do a good thing... For america to stay great we need loyalty as both companies and individuals.
4. Luna Longevity- so many usa ebike vendors have gone out of business...do your best to support a local shop...you will miss Luna if its gone.
5. Battery Liability - When you bring in a battery from China, you are financially and maybe criminallly liable if anything goes wrong with that battery. ..not the china company you buy from.
6. Airshipping batteries illegal - I dont know ANY china vendor who is shipping batteries legally. IF you are getting a battery air shipped to you its probably being done so illegally. This is dangerous and can wreck YOU if God forbid your shipment catches on fire enroute over the ocean between here and china.
7. Authenticity.... from luna you buy from a reputable company where you don't need to worry about authenticity. Fake cells are rampant in china.
8. Quality and Value- I have not even seen a battery on Alibaba that competes with ours.... China cannot buy quality grade a 18650 cells at the price we do. China cannot make a descent 18650 cell. However they are masters a re-wrapping.
9. Safety - A lithium battery can be dangerous.... this is the last thing i would consider buying from a china source unless i was big into gambling.
10. China Cheats - Again and again i see china companies breaking the rules and laws to save money. IF you are not paying proper custom duties, if you are not receiving your battery shipped legally you are rewarding a cheater.
11. Luna is an innovative company offering unique products we are always bettering. Most of our products are unique and cant be found on Alibaba.

[chilleydog]

Totally agree; and I can't wait until an American company can put together a better motor than Bafang with a real controller. I bought one of your kits back in March to create my new ebike. I like how you guys are constantly adding new stuff and adding videos to make the experience better and easier. I really love my new ride- got me back on my MTB after many years collecting dust in the garage. Kudos.

[Rix Ryds]

Don't worry Eric, Many of us will never go Chinese. We've tried the rest, now we'll stick with the best! Luna Loyal Baby!

[wklatt]

Yup, I totally support buying from Luna. I had a little shipping error with them, and it was promptly corrected at their expense. I was treated more than fairly. Mistakes will happen, especially with a fast growing new company with the complexity of managing changing and expanding new inventory. But if my experience is an example, they will have a lot of loyal customers going forward. I wish them the very best with this new business venture.

[JPLabs]

I think it's well written. I appreciate that it's objective, not bragging or slanderous. Just the facts.

Use it, yes! (couple of typos to fix).

I didn't know about battery liability belonging to the importer and that being the buyer. Scary, with an illegally shipped battery. Wow.

[CPG]

I had a bad speed sensor on one of my rides (I didn't know that until asking for some advice here, which I got) and since I had a order in with Luna for some other stuff, I was able to get a hold of them yesterday and they were able to include the needed sensor with my almost shipped out the door main BBSHD order. That's the kind of service you can only get "stateside."

[GeorgeS]

If you just want to be hard-headed about this Eric, it’s not that hard to see where the ebike business is going.

Your competition is going to be Alibaba and Aliexpress. That is a huge company. In some ways it is bigger than Amazon. Eventually they will find a way to open warehouses in the US and ship batteries legally. The Chinese get better at what they do, year after year.

The batteries are getting too cheap to even matter so much. I don’t know about these LG Chem batteries that GM is using. They make the pouches in Michigan and they are much larger than the cells. A set, in series, might make a nice ebike battery. If you want to stay on top, be flexible.

The Chinese make the parts. Bafang is a monopolist. They basically tell US vendors what to do. Bafang has all kinds of ways to hurt the US vendors. They could bundle batteries with the motors. They could offer better prices to Chinese vendors, wholesale. They could sell direct on Aliexpress.

Count on Aliexpress getting better and better, every year. Look at Hobby KIng. They have US warehouses and better customer service. Hobby King could transition to higher quality batteries.

Don’t get too wrapped up in what is legal and what is not legal. US vendors are breaking almost every rule, mostly State laws, about power and speed. Yeah, right, we’re all going to play it 100% straight. What’s your liability for selling a 3,000 watt ebike motor into a state that limits an ebike to 750 watts? Just asking.

I’m completely cynical about the US ebike industry. I may stop contributing to any of these forums and just write a Blog about what a dismal failure the US industry has become. But I like the bikes and it is easier to just not think about strategies and failed regulatory schemes.

Don’t kid yourself, Eric. No one is a hero. No one is special. You have a great battery business and a motor business that is outside the regs and relies on Chinese products. You could completely develop the battery business and make money. You are spread very thin. You might ask how lucky you have been, and when luck may run out.

I hope you are very successful. You do a lot of things right.

[CraigAustin]

You may be right but Zappos built a fabulous business based mainly on customer service. They were nothing but an online shoe reseller, and Amazon paid nearly $1bn for it in 2009 when the world seemed to be falling apart. I would think customer service is even more important for e-bikes given the complexity. Personally there is no price that would get me to buy e-bike stuff from Alibaba, it's just not worth the risk especially if you barely understand how these things work.

[emco5]

I'm occasionally called an old curmudgeon but GeorgeS has me beat by a mile. ;-)

[Eric Luna]

I am selling a 3000 watt motor that is true. But if someone puts it on an ebike that is their own business . they can choose to limit the throttle or install a 24 volt battery or never throttle it over 750 watts or only ride it on ebike race tracks or private property. i say in the listing that it is illegal for street use. But I am not in the position to tell an amercian what do to with his own free will. I am not a cop or a rule enforcer.

3000 watts is 4 horse power. you can go to home depot and buy a 4hp mower and battery easy.....try to make 4hp electric motors illegal....you should because some orange haired crazy man in NY is breaking the law with it and putting that weed whacking motor on his bicycle and teaching other people how to do it, we should make 4hp lawnmowers illegal and forbid home depot to sell them....where do you draw the line?

while you are at it .....

forget guns and weed and alcohaul and tobacco....and all those...... lets stay fun....

Are you going to start busting everyone who makes and sales racing car parts because there is a 55 mph speed limit in this country?

How do those guys make a living selling super chargers that make a car totally illegal and cars that will never gonna pass smog. WHy dont tthey call the cops every time they suspect someone is using their device for no good and if they did call the cops would the cops show up?


what about the guys who make cars that go 210 mph...... did you hear there is a 55 speed limit? Lets shut down corvette, ferrari, lamborghini, porshe.....and what the hell was audi thinking when they made the highly illegal r8? I thought audi was suppose to be safe and sane?

Why hasnt the government made automatic governors that limit cars to 65mph and forced car manufactureres to use them. Isnt that the governments job to govern?

Maybe the point is to have rules in place so they can come down on the rare bad apples who are out of control....the maniac who is driving drunk 100mph down a residential... nobody wants to see that and i think everyone wants to have a rule in place to bust him when he does it.



This country is full of law breakers allright...its part of what makes it so great.

[yowsa52]

First ebike here. Customer service is where you are at. Answering questions, making videos. You are on the right path. Online chat with Seb answering simple questions helped the ebike conversion go flawless. Don't change.

[HD Rockhopper]

I own a Hayabusa ... capable of 200mph.
And I spend more time on my ebike lately.
Thank you Eric for providing fair deals on equipment that makes my bike capable of high level fun, with lower risk factor than I am used to!
Skirting grey areas of the law is quite normal for me.
This is a very tame example. :)

[CraigAustin]

That is very true. At 30+ drivers are more content to follow vs. try to bomb past you. At 20 you're an obstacle to everyone and your head is on a swivel at all times.

[Louis]

Buy a scooter. 30 plus bikes are going to bring regulations. Watch. OSHA and its ilk exists because someone didn't use common sense and industries are typically incapable of self regulation. I like riding at 30, but find me a frame, or braking system, currently available for a bike the can be shown to be engineered for anything over that. The I'm a victim of traffic argument won't hold when it gets to the injury trial.

[yowsa52]

I used to fly gliders too.

[CPG]

Same with landing off airport in the plane, a grey area much of the time and a lot of the places I go but hey, no one gets hurt, (or sees me), it's a victimless "crime." Just like riding my e bike that MAYBE is slightly over some arbitrary power level, but I do it in a sane and safe way (to others anyway), I refuse to give up the right to endanger myself! Or feel like a criminal!

[wklatt]

Yup, totally legal to make a precautionary landing anywhere.

[Eric Luna]

I feel the same way...and so funny i do off field landings too :)

[yowsa52]

Off field landings are fun. The retrieve sucks.

[Louis]

We had oversized tires to land the T Craft on gravel bars. Best trout fishing ever. Until my partner misjudged and tagged the power line. Fun is fun, but there are consequences. I'm firmly in the "There are no accidents" theory of life. Just poor judgements.

[wklatt]

Yup, back country planes (especially experimental cub clones) with the big tires are the latest hot fad with small planes. But prices are getting way out of whack on some of these kit planes. Carbon Cubs are great, but hard to justify the inflated price tags. And yes, just as with mtn bikes, if you push the envelope too much, it can hurt. Usually good judgement comes from experience. Unfortunately, experience sometimes comes from bad judgement.

[wklatt]

And just to tie some of the latest posts and comments back to the topic... Another reason to buy from Luna, is their understanding of airplanes and potential synergies with ebikes, with folding bikes and even mtn ebikes in the back country. I bet if you guys took a folder with a BBSHD to a local airport fly-in, you'd probably sell a couple kits right on the spot. And you just need to seed a few airports here and there and they will spread on their own. I know at our airport it all started with one guy and now several of us have them. That's how I got interested, otherwise would never have ever thought how practical and easy to install these kits are. Heck, I never even heard of an e-mid drive before. Even hub drives are rare on the street, but have seen the odd one before.

[GeorgeS]

I noticed the BBS 02 is no longer in the online Bafang catalog. I don't know what it means. Bafang seems to have done a great job with the Max, a torque sensor mid drive that requires a custom frame. Bafang is apparently working on a 750 watt torque sensor hub (Roshan/Biktrix). The more refined systems, especially torque sensing PAS systems, work very well with basic power levels. I'm more interested in refined drive systems that provide a good riding experience, than pure power. It's a bike. If you want to fit in with bikes, have access to bike paths, work with cycling groups for more bike infrastructure, you have to stay in the bike envelope. High power levels will make it hard to get access to trails that are open to MTBs, but not eMTB's.

Bafang is an amazing company. Paul is talking about exciting new products. I wonder how they are evolving, since they are such a big part of the market?

[HD Rockhopper]

This thread has gone completely off topic.
It was meant to discuss reasons to buy from LUNACYCLE.
Not airplanes, or future Bafang product lines.
*Unsubscribed*

[OptimusPrime]

I'm more interested in refined drive systems that provide a good riding experience, than pure power. It's a bike. If you want to fit in with bikes, have access to bike paths, work with cycling groups for more bike infrastructure, you have to stay in the bike envelope.

I'm 110% with you on this, George!