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Shaving weight off my Luna X1 and other X1 mods

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  • EL34
    replied
    eskachig
    I don't think there will be a problem with the ZTTO cassette coming apart
    The rivets you see in the screen shot only hold the 46 tooth gear onto the solid main body.
    And there are 16 rivets total

    On SRAM XX1 one piece cassettes, the largest cog is only pressed onto some small pins
    I have pried off the largest cog on my XX1 cassettes in order to clean the inside of the cassette.
    Then just pressed the big cog back on to the main body
    No problems with that system after many years of riding

    It's probably time for me to take the ZITTO cassette off and clean it thoroughly

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001278998057.html

    Click image for larger version

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  • eskachig
    commented on 's reply
    This cassette should be easier on your hub body than the stock one that comes with the bike - it rests on two points, and they're both far wider than any individual cog. Thicker than any sort of Surly cog+spacer, too. I think in this regard, there is little to worry about. I'm not really a masher anyway, and keep the bike at low assist.

    I specced my chinese carbon wheels with DT swiss 350s, so the body is easily replaceable, but I'm not expecting anything weird in that area. The big questions for for me are rivet quality, and the actual material. We will see, but so far, saving 312 grams over the stock version for ~$80 is pretty great. That's 2/3rds of a pound.

    I also threw on higher-engagement hub ratchets from the same ZTTO brand, and they're fantastic at half the price. If these all destroy themselves, it will suck, but they just might last - I'm usually not too hard on this sort of stuff.
    Last edited by eskachig; 1 day ago.

  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    I was just trying to point out that the material of the freehub shell will make a difference as to what is or isn't a suitable spline width. If you go with an all aluminum hub you may need a casette with a wider spline area. I can understand wanting a lighter offroad E bike.

  • EL34
    replied
    I already posted up above about the excellent cassette I and others are using.
    it's a one piece machined constructions like the SRAM XX1 high end cassettes.

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  • Retrorockit
    replied
    Some of the one piece casettes are for high end light weight groupsets that use aluminum casette carriers on the hub. Separate cogs will eat into the aluminum splines and destroy the ratchet shell.
    This is why the old XTR hubs had aluminum carriers to match the XTR aluminum splined hubs.
    The other normal solution is separate steel cogs and steel splines that are less expensive to replace. Probably a better solution for high powered e bikes.
    Surly makes some thick stainless steel cogs with the spacer built in. They don't have ramps to help shifting. But they say they can be stacked and will shift at some level. The teeth are very tall and wont work when stacked with regular cogs due to this ( I tried it). I haven't tried stacking them and shifting because they don't have the full range of sizes I need.
    https://www.competitivecyclist.com/s...20%26%20Brakes
    You won't save any weight using Surly parts though.

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  • EL34
    replied
    Too much text for my brain to take in :)

    Carbon wheel set + Going tubeless = Just under 5 lbs on my bike

    Leave a comment:


  • Brookbiker
    replied
    I need some advice, I have read many of your posts and watched your videos and frankly you convinced me that this is the bike for me. Thank you for all the marvelous wisdom and information that you provide through this forum. I love this bike, it's so much fun to ride. I've been analyzing the wheel replacement option to shave weight and am puzzled by the numerical analysis I've done. Allow me to describe my understanding. Received my medium X1 on Wednesday, it weighs 53 lbs, makes me wonder what parts were changed since you got your early edition. Weighed it more than once using a digital bathroom scale. Took off both wheels and weighed them on a digital kitchen food scale and came up with 14 lbs, 1 ounce. So I've got slightly different numbers than you came up with and don't know why. I collected more data for this analysis, thought I would break it down a little more. Individual wheel component weights gathered via the net: SRAM SX eagle cassette, 1.36lbs; Maxis Minion Tire set 4.7 lbs; Rotor set 0.8 lbs; tubes estimate 1.5 lbs (weights vary considerably) These components total 8.36 lbs. Since the measured weight of both wheels is 14 lbs, subtracting the components yields 5.64 lbs for the rims, hubs and spokes. 5.64 lbs X 453 gm/lb = 2,555 gm for the wheelset. So I looked at several carbon wheelsets and 1800 gm is a good number to use for comparing the weight savings. 2,555 - 1,800= 755gm difference. That's 1.66 lbs. So where is the flaw in this analysis? I can't see a 5 lb weight loss by going to carbon rims. I really hope to shave 5 lbs but can't figure out where my analysis is wrong. Hope you can explain where I've erred because carbon rims are a very appealing upgrade. Thanks in advance.

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  • jjdicecco
    commented on 's reply
    I’m getting ready to order carbon rims.... I have a question I thought maybe you can answer... with the rims you bought the would fit on my stock setup with the Sram driver? And these has a boost rear correct?

  • eskachig
    replied
    It's cheaper, and less than 2/3rds the weight of the SX cassette - if it lasts 2/3rds as long, I'll feel like I came out ahead. I understand some of these had issues with backpedaling, but that's not a concern with our bikes in any case. I don't want to jinx it, because I haven't had a chance to toss it on and see how it shifts, but so far this looks like great value by ZTTO. I tend to keep my cadence high, and don't think I'm in the "high power" set.

    I have their dropper post lever too - it's never going to look as good as a PNY, but it works extremely well and costs something like $18.
    Last edited by eskachig; 10-30-2020, 09:58 PM.

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  • EL34
    replied
    No one is arguing and I am not picking on any one person here

    The reason I said all of that is because I have seen other post where people don't quite understand the concept of how these one piece cassettes are made physically and they question whether they are ok to use or not

    In my drawing below you have a typical cassette on the left and a one piece on the left
    It's a crude drawing but it illustrates the construction of each type

    Some cassettes join a few of the top cogs together with rivets and they are better than the ones that have every single cog as a separate cog with spacers between each cog

    in my drawing below, which one do you think is weaker and more likely to bend a cog under high power?
    It should be pretty evident that the one on the right has way more support for each cog because it is one piece of machined steel
    Except for the very top largest cog, which is always joined to the main assembly

    I hope this helps to explain why one piece cogs are a better choice for Ebikes

    ​​​​​​​
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  • Desmodromic
    commented on 's reply
    Actually, I'm not sure anyone misunderstands the concept. I know I don't. It's not about questioning the concept, the details around the concept matter.

    It's not worth arguing about, but different users have different use cases. Some guys are putting a LOT more torque into the driveline than they ever would under human-only power. In Chinese manufacturing, often times liberties are taken when the parts are not for an OEM that has specific requirements or material, machining details, heat treat, etc. Like you, I've run top level SRAM cassettes on both MTB and Road for many years. They're great stuff. That doesn't mean that a Chinese clone of those parts will perform the same over time on a high-powered eBike. And if it's NOT a direct clone from a design perspective, they equate even less. Apples to Oranges.

    Positive experiences with actual in-use durability are to me far more valuable than the "concept" or nebulous statements like "way better." Thanks for sharing yours.

  • EL34
    replied
    Originally posted by eskachig View Post
    My Zitto cassette arrived - 395 grams, impressive. I can see where the material came from - it only anchors at the ends of the hub body, so compared to a regular cassette the body is hollow. It'll be interesting how it works out on the X-1.
    I have been running my ZITTO cassette for a while now without any issues
    It way better than the stock cassette that came on the X1
    It stronger and lighter than a regular cassette

    I have been running SRAM XX1 one piece cassettes for many years
    It's the same construction as the ZITTO's

    Not sure if people questioning the one piece machining under stand the concept here

    Individual cogs with a spacer like on a stock cassette means that the cogs can move independently
    They can also twist and bend because you have a piece of metal supported by nothing other than a plastic spacer in the center

    I have seen Ebike owners post images like this on Facebook

    Click image for larger version

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  • Desmodromic
    commented on 's reply
    Interested to hear how it works out for you over time and with X-1 loads. Please keep us posted!

  • eskachig
    replied
    My Zitto cassette arrived - 395 grams, impressive. I can see where the material came from - it only anchors at the ends of the hub body, so compared to a regular cassette the body is hollow. It'll be interesting how it works out on the X-1.

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  • EL34
    replied
    Originally posted by EL34 View Post

    This is the chain protector I have on my X1
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0186OOSTA/
    Yes, I ordered Medium
    I forgot they had 3 sizes listed
    It looks like this on my X1

    Click image for larger version

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