Greetings from PA - The Home of the Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia EAGLES...!!

[StudRock]

Greetings from PA - The Home of the Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia EAGLES...!!

I'm sure that's going to come back to bite me in the @#$@ - but anyway, I'm new to the forum and I just wanted to introduce myself and say Hi..!

Summary about me: I'm an adult male, ex Ford Engineer turn IT Director with WAAAAY Toooo many hobbies and tools. If I sit around too long with the computer, I'm gonna buy or build something, and as it turns out, I'll be doing both and looking for your expert advice and guidance on many of these items. So pretty much everything I own, I've modified to fit my desire. I have a Custom 700 RWHP Terminator Cobra that I built and show, I also have a KTM Dual-sport that I've modified along with a BMW M3 Convertible just to play around with...oh, and a modified F150 for those times in the winter. But anyway, my next adventure is custom building my first eBike.

I've been creeping around the web for about 3 weeks now looking for a "solid" forum with knowledgeable people that are willing to help out and provide some guidance. I think I found the right place and it wont be long before I start posting questions and doing my performance research.

In Summary about the eBike build - code named Viper. I'm looking to build out a Fat Tire Bike with the following requirements and I'm looking for some advice on where to shop and do some research

First - Yes, I am aware of the 750 Watt - 20 MPH max speed laws for PA.
- Budget - I'd like to stay under $3,000 if I can...
- Environment = 95% + street time - "maybe" 5% off road
- Performance = I'm NOT looking to race it or go too fast, I have my Cobra or KTM for that. Top speed 40 MPH (at times)
- Range = 30-40 miles
- Steel Fat Tire Frame if i can find one....?
- Front Shocks and Disc Brakes
- Rear wheel hub motor (3000/4000 watt)...?
- Petal Assist
- Full Twist Throttle
- Still doing research on the Battery/Controller and Computer - recommendations welcomed

Anyway, thanks for having me guys/gals, I look forward to speaking with you... If you have any suggestions or links, please feel free to IM me outside of the thread as well.

Thanks again..!!

Rick

[Hard Tail]

Hi Rick. Welcome aboard. Sounds like you’ve got it all squared away technically. Just generic advice from my perspective, the BBSHD is worth a look motor wise, and if you can buy local, all the better. All the best with the build.

[StudRock]

HI HT... Thank you for the warm welcome. Yes, I feel comfortable with the mechanical side of things, however, I'm lacking in the knowledge and resource availability. I'm in the US, and, I'm on the East Cost, which is very limited in ebike sourcing and parts at best. So, I'm hoping that the Pro's on here can help. As you can see in my original post, I have a general idea of what I'm looking to build, and for the most part, its a ground up build. Fat Bike Frame, Crank, wheels, etc.. I've been researching a ton of posts and videos, but I really havent found much "current" direction. By current direction, I mean within the last year or so. A lot of of the post that I'm seeing are from 2014/15, etc...

So for starters, I want to pick out a Solid Fat Bike Frame & Fork assembly that will support a 4000w Rear Hub Motor. If you see or hear of any good threads or sites, please pass them along. Again, this is for a Fat Tire Build. Thank you MUCH...!!

[max_volt]

IMO a 4kw is more in the realm of motorcycle than bike but there is a guy on here Ebike1 that is very knowledgeable plus he lives in your state.

[StudRock]

Thanks for the reply Max... If that's the case, I'm not looking to build a motorcycle, I'm merely looking to build a bike that will get me to 25-35 MPH with decent range. I'll have to ask and see if he can offer any suggestions. Thanks...

[calfee20]

Thanks for the reply Max... If that's the case, I'm not looking to build a motorcycle, I'm merely looking to build a bike that will get me to 25-35 MPH with decent range. I'll have to ask and see if he can offer any suggestions. Thanks...

If this is truly what you want then one of my builds might be a model for you. The important part is the DD hub with a 35mm magnet width and the other is using 72 volt batteries. This size motor still allows you to use a 7spd freewheel so you still have some shifting ability.

Pick whatever frame that meets your fancy but keep installation in mind.

My build: http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...an-electra-fat

Another build same motor: http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...the-next-build

Article about the motor: http://www.electricbike.com/edge-1500w/

There are similar motors out there so it is not like I am advocating for this particular setup. There is a slightly smaller hub that uses cassettes instead of freewheels that may be interesting:

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/motors/mx3006rc.html

If I keep my fat tires pumped to 20psi I can get into the low 20's: watts per mile. That is at least 40 miles with a 17.5 amp/hr 72 volt battery.

This is the most help you will get anywhere from a Pats fan!!!...………...calfee

[StudRock]

IMO a 4kw is more in the realm of motorcycle than bike but there is a guy on here Ebike1 that is very knowledgeable plus he lives in your state.

Hi Max... Thank you for passing that info along... I reached out to Mike and introduced myself and asked for a little guidance.

[StudRock]

If this is truly what you want then one of my builds might be a model for you. The important part is the DD hub with a 35mm magnet width and the other is using 72 volt batteries. This size motor still allows you to use a 7spd freewheel so you still have some shifting ability.

Pick whatever frame that meets your fancy but keep installation in mind.

My build: http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...an-electra-fat

Another build same motor: http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...the-next-build

Article about the motor: http://www.electricbike.com/edge-1500w/

There are similar motors out there so it is not like I am advocating for this particular setup. There is a slightly smaller hub that uses cassettes instead of freewheels that may be interesting:

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/motors/mx3006rc.html

If I keep my fat tires pumped to 20psi I can get into the low 20's: watts per mile. That is at least 40 miles with a 17.5 amp/hr 72 volt battery.

This is the most help you will get anywhere from a Pats fan!!!...………...calfee

calfee20 - Thank you sir for posting this information... I'm looking at some of your builds now... Very Nice..!! - Minus the Pats fan comment, I think you have a lot of great ideas...lol.. Seriously though, thank youj..

[calfee20]

Studrock posed a few questions in a PM that I will try to address here. He listed the goals for his ebike project and was wondering what DD hub motor to use.

- Fat Bike 26er

- Speed: 30-35 MPH

- Range: 40+ ish

- Petal assist

- Freewheel

I have only built one DD system that I have experimented with enough to have an idea of what it is capable of doing, and that is the Edge 1500. DD hubs like smaller diameter wheels, it is their form of gearing. So putting one on a 26 X 4.0 fatbike is not optimal. This is what I did and what you want to do. These motors may have different windings which will give them different performance characteristics. This is the best article I have found on this.

http://www.electricbike.com/motor-tech-learn-the-terms-part-1/

Your speed of 30-35...……...is that top speed or continuous? My Edge will do that easily but if I tried to maintain it, it would overheat.

Range is directly related to speed. I have my pedal assist working through my cycle analyst. It is set for 1500 watts divided up into 10 steps. I almost always pedal when I ride and I contribute about the same amount all the time. On level ground 500 watts will give me a cruise of 15-17mph, 750 watts around 20 mph and 1500 to see 25 mph. I have pushed 5000-7000 watts through the edge but it will quickly over heat. I could probably maintain 25 or a little more without overheating.

I have a 72 volt 17.5 amp/hour battery. That is about 1260 watt/hours. I have used anywhere from 22 - 30 watts per mile. That will give me a range of 42 - 57 miles I have confirmed range and speed with gps so I feel all of these figures are very reasonable. I changed out my 26 X 4.0 Origin8 Supercell front tire and went with the factory Electra 26 X 3.5 tire. This change allowed me to go from 20 to 30 psi in the front wheel. The bike felt more nimble and I used about 5 less watts per mile. Maybe some fat tires are to FAT.

There are a vast amount of 205 DD hub motors out there. It seems though that the 35mm magnet width is about maximum for a 135mm dropout and a 7 speed freewheel. A bigger motor will limit your gearing possibilities.

It is easily possible to use a DD hub bike as a 1spd. Just leave it in high, start off with the throttle and start pedaling. The problem with the bigger motors is the smallest sprocket you can get on a single speed freewheel is 16 tooth. This would require a giant chainwheel for meaningful pedaling beyond 20 mph.

Mxus and Qsmotors are big suppliers of 205 motors. Personally I would lean toward Qsmotors. They usually include an extra set of halls and larger diameter phase wires.

Well I am all typed out I hope I didn't bore anyone...…………...calfee