BBS02-B Power Assist Stopped Working

[calfee20]

I think its going to be hard to figure out how to wire an external controller. Not that it can't be done but it would be a research project. My controllers use 3 phase power wires (easy part) and 5 "control" wires. I assume one is power and one is ground. The other 3 may be outputs from hall sensors that feed back to the controller? I'm pretty sure someone here could educate us if they see this thread.
I'm confused about the guy in the video who hooked up just the phase wires from the Lebowski and it seemed to work. Is it always that simple? Why does my hub motor have 5 extra wires?
Robert

ERT has a kit for BBSHDs and just because it is for 72 volts doesn't mean you have to use it. http://electricrt.myshopify.com/coll...pgrade-72v-40a

[Rix Ryds]

You can hook up any brushless controller to the BBS02 or HD. the 5 wires you speak of are the phase hall sensors some controllers need them (sensored), some do not (unsensored). There is no standardized color code for these so it may not work correctly by just matching colors. there is a method for determining what hooks up to what. See attached jpeg. Sensored is more efficient. Be aware that the BBS02 is not a particularly robust motor and if you run it hard you will have problems. If I were you I would just buy a new controller from California Ebikes, about $100 and simple plug and play!

[Rider]

I think it really is that simple for a throttle only assist to a simple electric motor. All those other wires are likely for all the sensors that are not needed in a throttle only on/off setup without display like: brake cutoffs, cadence, speed, display stuff, back-pedal, etc... All I can think of is how all the electric motors I played with as a child simply had a variable switch that turned them on and increased power. If it's spring loaded, then power shuts off when you let the switch go.

[Robert62]

I think its going to be hard to figure out how to wire an external controller. Not that it can't be done but it would be a research project. My controllers use 3 phase power wires (easy part) and 5 "control" wires. I assume one is power and one is ground. The other 3 may be outputs from hall sensors that feed back to the controller? I'm pretty sure someone here could educate us if they see this thread.
I'm confused about the guy in the video who hooked up just the phase wires from the Lebowski and it seemed to work. Is it always that simple? Why does my hub motor have 5 extra wires?
Robert

[Rider]

It's looking like returning the controller to China for a warranty replacement is cost prohibitive. You have to use USPS Express Mail to get a tracking number to the destination. That will cost $62US. The seller wants another $25US for return shipping, so I'd be into the FREE WARRANTY REPLACEMENT for $85US and any future warranty would still be China based. I'm not willing to send that much for what could possibly be another defective one.

The external controller on the MY1018 brushed motor was only ~$15. Paying $100 here in the US with a US warranty makes more sense than spending $85 for a China one. Researching external controllers also seems like an interesting learning experience as well.

There was another poster here that had the same issue (referenced early in this thread). I have to wonder if there is a bad batch of controllers out there on the BBS02B's or if someone in China decided to use up an old batch of the weaker ones to cut costs. Unfortunately manufacturers over there are certainly known to do that kind of thing...

[Rider]

When I saw the problems you were having with the S-A no turn washers I thought you might be riding a little aggressively. Now I am not being critical but before you put it back together you might want to install a temperature sensor.

I have pushed my BBSHD a couple of times to see what it could do and when I touched it with my leg I thought I had burned myself. So if we can get them that hot we can burn them out.

You could also install an external controller but that is not cost effective.

No, this motor nor my other BBS02B haven't been "abused" at all. Neither one has ever got hot to the touch; I put my hand on both all the time to check heat. The problems with the SA washers are related to several factors: smaller axle in a larger slot, wrong type of anti-rotation washer for a vertical drop, axle nuts "unknowingly" working loose due to constant reversing torque that only loosens and never tightens, 750-1000W with pedaling being more than human power bicycle parts are designed for, etc...

Most of my SA anti-rotation washer problems were on the Soma B-Side. The Electra had SA 5spd auto-upshifting problem for about the first 500 miles, but seemd to get loosened up after that. This BBS02B controller failed at 800 miles of normal use. There is no reason for it to fail other than it being defective. It certainly wasn't heat related, although it could be that the mosfets aren't good enough to handle normal use electrical heat threw them (?).

I'm surprised that there is no way to tell if this controller really is the newer 3077 model with 9 mosfets by the serial number. At least no one has stated it can be. It might be worth opening it up to see if that is determinable by looking at the mosfets themselves (?).

[Rider]

That is a great link but that seems like a lot of work to replace the FETs. I would try to get a deal on a new controller. I don't think you can run any 3 phase motors without some type of controller. The controller is necessary to sequence the coils in the motor. Pulses are created based on rotor angle and velocity. I think most 3 phase controllers work similarly so you can change out the connectors to use a different controller if you know what you are doing or have the schematics.
Robert

Yes, I agree. But if you end up with a "better" controller using the quality mosfets that aren't in the BBS02B controller, then you end up with something that should be more reliable.

Running it without the stock Bafang BBS02B controller is interesting. I understand you have to have another external controller hooked up. IMHO that seems like something worth looking into.

[calfee20]

I have to have one running all the time. I have a car and a pickup and when the weather is nice they just sit. Of course I use the pickup to transport a bike to a distant bike path. LOL

[calfee20]

When I saw the problems you were having with the S-A no turn washers I thought you might be riding a little aggressively. Now I am not being critical but before you put it back together you might want to install a temperature sensor.

I have pushed my BBSHD a couple of times to see what it could do and when I touched it with my leg I thought I had burned myself. So if we can get them that hot we can burn them out.

You could also install an external controller but that is not cost effective.

[Robert62]

That is a great link but that seems like a lot of work to replace the FETs. I would try to get a deal on a new controller. I don't think you can run any 3 phase motors without some type of controller. The controller is necessary to sequence the coils in the motor. Pulses are created based on rotor angle and velocity. I think most 3 phase controllers work similarly so you can change out the connectors to use a different controller if you know what you are doing or have the schematics.
Robert

[Rider]

Okay, I found this DIY controller mosfets repair post:

https://electricbike-blog.com/bbs02-controller-mods/

That looks like a lot of work, but if you can put in better mosfets then maybe it's worth trying...

I also found this video in which the rider hits his motor hard and apparently blows his controller. Not sure why that would blow a controller?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVeoqoZloHo

The interesting thing here is he hooks up a different controller and it runs his BBS02! I didn't know you can do that.

So, can a "controller-less" BBS02B have a simple throttle hooked up to it and run it like a MY1018? If so, then maybe this motor will become a simple throttle only electric motor if my MY1018 project works out.

[Rider]

My eBikes are just adult toys and not used for daily transportation. I couldn't survive without a car anywhere. Right now both my eBikes have the motors removed. I am in the process of setting up a 29er Adventure eMTB now that this motor in the eCruiser broke. The eCruiser is back to a simple Coaster 3 speed again. I took it for an enjoyable pedal only ride yesterday evening. I also have a MY1018 mid-drive project in the works to try out that motor as a throttle only hill climb assist full suspension MTB trail rig. Still need parts to complete that one. My RockShox 27.5 TK 30 Gold forks sold, so I'm back on track to finish that one off. If the Soma B-Side frame doesn't sell within the few weeks, I'll put the Exotic Carbon Disc 46.5 fork on it and make it slightly more street speed oriented, but would prefer to buy a new Soma Juice frame with the sale funds and have a 27.5+/29er frame to play with. The good thing is, I always have at least one pedal bike to ride. That keeps me satisfied and in shape. ;-)

[Rider]

Yes, I do have two BBS02B motors that are identical. I was hoping I could diagnose this problem without taking apart my good working motor to test it with a known good controller, but I was unable to find a local shop that could help me. This morning I reluctantly took the controller off my known good motor and put it on the bad one. Walla! It works perfectly.

* * * CONFIRMED THE CONTROLLER IS BAD * * *

This is good and bad. This motor has the new 3077 controller with 9 mosfets and it crapped out after 800 miles without abuse. The China retailer is insisting I send the bad one to them for "repair" and have to ship using China Post with a $10 value. AFAIK that means USPS "Registered Mail" or "Express Mail" at crazy prices to get it handed off to China Post WITH FULL TRACKING. Plus they want $25 return shipping to be paid by me as well.

I haven't priced shipping yet, but years ago I had to return a very small $65 phone watch and it cost me $35 with tracking from the USPS. Then the retailer claimed they never got it, even though I had a clear tracking record from point to point. In the end I lost $100 instead of just $65 if I simply threw it in the trash and walked away...

A BBS02B 750W 48V controller is heavier and larger than that little watch. If it ends up at $50 or above. plus $25 return shipping, I'll be into a new "free warranty" controller for $75, when I can buy one here for $100 and be done with it. I find it hard to believe the retailer didn't take my offer of $50 and just send a new controller. They still claim they are going to "repair" it.

I need this question answered:

CAN A CONTROLLER BE REPAIRED? IF SO, DOES ANYONE HAVE A LINK SHOWING DISASSEMBLY?

[calfee20]

The China seller insists I ship the bad one to them for "repair." I've never heard of anyone repairing a BBS## controller, they simply replace them.

I mat hit Luna up on my next drive through LA to confirm this one is bad before sending it off.

Q: CAN BBS## CONTROLLERS BE DISASSEMBLED AND REPAIRED?

I thought you had 2 BBS02s. One for each of your builds. I am so paranoid about being without an Ebike that I have a BBSHD, BBS02, and an edge 1500 all working on bikes. The two hub motors I have though was just to see what the other style of propulsion is like.

[Robert62]

Just for a point of reference there is a BBS02 controller listed on eBay for $109. But it would be a shame to buy that and then find out it was your hall effects inside the motor.
Robert