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Wiring-Ebike brake mechanical to hydraulic conversion...Solved

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    Wiring-Ebike brake mechanical to hydraulic conversion...Solved

    Wiring

    9 minutes ago
    I have a newer factory ebike and I want to replace the mechanical disc brakes with hydraulic brakes. The problem is that the bike has a mechanical brake cut off switch installed on the rear brake cable and it is a three wire switch connected to a three wire female on the controller. I want to add a hydraulic brake cut off switch to the new system but the magnetic switches are all two wire. The wiring on my controller for the brake cut off is Red for voltage-Black for ground and Gray for signal. Can I use a two wire brake cut off switch somehow. I appreciate any advice from the experts out there. Thank you.
    Last edited by Delta; 01-16-2019, 11:12 AM.

    #2
    Originally posted by CoMoBiker View Post
    You might start by checking the function of the factory switches. If the grey wire goes from zero to full voltage in one jump as you compress the brake lever then you probably could duplicate the function with a normally open momentarily switch that would connect the red wire to the grey one when braking is applied. If the grey wire passes variable voltage depending on amount of lever throw, then a more sophisticated switch would be needed to retain variable regen braking.


    Agreed that the first step would be to find out if it's just a simple two wire cut-out/regen or a three wire variable regen type. But I know for sure that a Magic Pie controller shorts the brake signal to ground to actuate the brake feature. Thinking that a Bafang mid-drive controller also does the same. (of course mid drive or geared hub motors would not have regen...) Both of them having three wires ran to the brake, but not using the 5vdc input, which for the Pie, was for future variable regeneration use...
    Tips on going hydraulic…




    http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/tripwire.html

    http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...4587#post34587

    http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...-brake-sensors
    Last edited by Tommycat; 01-04-2019, 12:46 PM.
    See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

    Comment


      #3
      Tommycat. thanks for the great information. I may now be able to figure something out. I had ordered a Bafang two wire magnetic sensor but now think that the Bafang Higo style magnetic sensor may work for me since it appears to have three wires. I do not have the Higo brake sensor line on my bike (it just has a three wire connector coming off the controller that was used for the Kingmeter mechanical brake cut off for my mechanical disc brakes) and it has a red, a black and a signal wire (from the controller). It seems to me that I could cut the Higo connector off of the three wire Bafang cutoff sensor, splice in a section of wire and then connect it to the brake sensor wires from my controller. Do you think that would work. I will be using just one brake sensor which is all the original brakes had. Thanks again, the links you sent were very helpful.

      Comment


        #4
        Something else Tommycat. Keep in mind that my motor is rear hub on a factory ebike. The motor (750w) has no name but has been a very good strong motor. The bike is made by Addmotor and is nine months old. I noticed that the Bafang cut off with the Higo connectors says it is for a mid drive motor. Do you think that makes any difference.

        Comment


          #5
          Hi Delta,

          Glad you found it useful! Since you have three wires coming from the controller, and going to the brake lever assembly. I'm still a bit conflicted with the type of braking that you actually have... analog (variable) or digital/simple switch (on or off) If you would give some particulars on your E-bike, specifically controller make and model.
          Or specifics on how the original brake electrical switching actually worked...
          Perhaps an accurate answer could be given.



          But to be sure... do not short the Red and Black power wires. Click image for larger version  Name:	everyday_wink_230608.gif Views:	1 Size:	3.1 KB ID:	80823
          Last edited by Tommycat; 01-06-2019, 10:14 AM.
          See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

          Comment


            #6
            Hi Tommycat. Yea, shorting red to black would be a no no. My controller is made by Lishui I believe. The numbers on it are G3M20211-1592-16 and LSW1207-14-1M. It is a 48 volt with maximum current listed as 22A. My wiring from the controller did not go to the original brake lever, it went to a Kingmeter brake cut off that was factory installed to the rear brake cable. Once I removed the mechanical brakes and disconnected the wire from the Kingmeter cut off where it was plugged into the controller all that is left is the three wire connector approximately 4 inch long coming from the controller. My new Shimano M6000 hydraulic brakes have no brake cut off built into them. I was going to adapt one of those magnetic cut off switches but am unsure of the wiring. That three wire Bafang cut off seems like it would work if I cut the Higo plug off and extented the wire to my controller. My controller does not have a wiring diagram on it and I have not been able to find one. I can't say if I had variable braking but it seemed like the motor cut off as soon as I moved the brake lever (like the Kingmeter cut off was either on or off). If you are not familiar with the Kingmeter you can see it online. The brake cable goes through it and I believe there is a magnetic switch inside that responds when the brake cable moves. Thanks again for you help.

            Comment


              #7
              Between the King-man switch, your description, and the controller type, I'm thinking it's just on/off. (although the King-man wiring I saw was Red, Yellow, and Blue...)

              Is this the sensor kit your thinking about?

              http://lunacycle.com/bafang-hydrauli...-e-brake-pair/
              See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

              Comment


                #8
                Yes, that is the one though I am only going to use one sensor. The sensor on the mechanical brake does say "Kingmeter" on it and I have not seen the color of the wires inside the outer cable cover. The wire colors I mentioned to you were from the controller which has the brake cut off wire colors exposed at its connector. I am assuming that the red is voltage, the black is ground and the gray is signal.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I think that sensor kit should work for you.

                  Originally posted by Delta View Post
                  The wire colors I mentioned to you were from the controller which has the brake cut off wire colors exposed at its connector. I am assuming that the red is voltage, the black is ground and the gray is signal.
                  Please, DO NOT assume anything! One of the most important things I've learned with E-bike parts manufactures is that they generally get the wiring correct from the connector pin to where ever they're going to... But some really don't care if the wiring COLORS adhere to any particular commonality. So if at all possible, always verity first.

                  With my Pie controller this is fairly easy to check as the 5vdc power wire reads 4.35vdc to battery negative or ground.(always a bit low...) And the brake signal wire reading slightly under at 3vdc to ground. With the actual ground wire of course being 0vdc. Hopefully yours is similar and easy to recognize.

                  Do you have an display that indicates when your E-brakes are actuated? If so you could verify by, for a short time, shorting the signal wire to the ground wire. And checking the display or actual motor operation for the correct response To be on the safe side an inline multi meter reading milli amps wouldn't be a bad idea. As the draw should probably be less than EDIT: ~30mA. Make sure this is checked and working before you chop up your new sensor wires... I'd do it right now (before ordering) to verify that my assumptions are correct. lol.

                  As for as the magnetic switch. Verify which two wires close when the magnet is removed, and connect them to the two that make the brake operation function correctly on the controller.

                  You mentioned two splices between the brake assembly and controller adding some wire. Just a thought. If you leave the sensor higo connector on and buy a brake cable extension. Then connect the end going to the controller, at or inside the controller. You would have an easy means to disconnect, good matching wire cabling and a protected, one splice.(If the cables for both are long enough total, and your budget big enough... :-))







                  Last edited by Tommycat; 01-07-2019, 08:41 AM. Reason: Brake sense amp draw on the Pie is 27mAs...
                  See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hi Tommycat, you are right about assuming anything. This morning I checked the wires from the controller and I read 4.72 volts from red to black (voltage to ground) and 2.92 volts gray to ground (signal to ground) so at least the controller manufacturer used correct color codes. I also exposed the wiring from the King Meter cut off and it has red for voltage, yellow for ground and blue for signal, so King Meter threw in a oddball ground color. That is a good idea to get Higo extension cable I will do that. I do not have the Higo sensor wire yet so I cannot check switching but will order it now and follow your advice before I order an extension cable. My display does not indicate brake activation. Thank you once again.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Just ran across this... looked interesting.

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	1482473636728753.jpg
Views:	1594
Size:	22.3 KB
ID:	80973

                      Hydraulic actuated switch...

                      http://kingmeter.kaituocn.com/displa...?lang=cn&id=37

                      Plan "B" if needed? ;-)

                      See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

                      Comment


                      • AZguy
                        AZguy commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Huh.... I wonder where you can get those and how much they cost...

                        Someday I may get around to bleeding my brakes and when I do that I was thinking of lengthening my front brake line just a little - it's right at the limit... This looks a lot better than the stick on magnetic sensors...

                      • Robert62
                        Robert62 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Very interesting! Thanks
                        Robert

                      #12
                      That looks like a very good idea Tommycat, though it does not seem to be available yet. I have the necessary cables for my hook-up now and will install the magnetic switch tomorrow. I will let you know how it goes.

                      Comment


                        #13
                        Hi Tommycat. I installed the switch this morning and everything worked perfectly. I did not hook up the voltage wire. It may have been needed for the King Meter switch on the original mechanical brake but does not seem to be used for the hydraulic magnetic switch. Thank you very much for all your advice.

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Hi Delta,
                          That's really great news! Job well done on getting it going. If you would do us a favor and edit your original post title to something like... Wiring E-brake Mechanical to Hydraulic Conversion...Solved
                          It would help others looking for information with the same situation. And if you could post a picture of your install, Sebz might use it in his install thread. Happy to help... enjoy those new brakes. :-)
                          See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

                          Comment


                            #15
                            Hi Tommycat. I changed the title but taking pictures would not show much. If anyone wants more info they can ask this thread and I would be more than happy to describe what I had to buy and how I wired it, though I guess the wiring is described above. And maybe that new King Meter switch you pictured will be available soon to make things easier, or at least eliminate setting up a magnetic switch.

                            Comment

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