Need help on 36v scooter

[TheNiceGuy]

I Hi guys
I recently got a used scooter, and the seller claims to know nothing about it. I outlined the issues here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwZE...ature=youtu.be

(basically wheel locks when given throttle, charger freeks out when plugged into charge port).

In addition, I followed the hall sensor test here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4O9YQG08vE&app=desktop

Following this procedure, the green Hall sensor wire clearly has a problem. It never drops below 4.25 V (from 5v). The other 2 wires start at 5 V, and oscilate to 0v.

If this is indeed the problem, I believe I can just replace the Hal sensor in the hub. I want to confirm that the issue is in the hub - not the corresponding part in the controller? Are all hall sensors for these hub motors the same, or brand specific? I’ve ordered these:
10PCS SS41 SS41F TO3 SENSOR SS HALL EFFECT BIPOLAR NEW GOOD QUALITY
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cplgJdXE

Still not sure why the battery charger will not charge the battery. Is there a test I can perform on the charger or battery before having to take the battery apart? If I must take the battery apart, is there a guide on how to test the BMS and the rest of the battery properly without destroying it?
I also assume none of these issues could be caused by the throttle?
Anyways, thanks again so much for your help guys!

[TheNiceGuy]

Ok, so I dismantle the battery, checked each cell, 3.8 V, why is it still not charging?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjBk...ature=youtu.be

in addition, I have dismantled the hub motor. It’s just a simple matter of carefully soldering in the new hall? One thing I noticed of concern: both the red power wire and the green Hall wire (the one which is malfunctioning) appear to have had some of the coating rubbed off by the rotating hub casing. Would this have caused the failure? If so, should I unsolder and reposition the wires so this doesn’t happen again?
btw, I tried running it with the side casing off, and there was no difference.

[TheNiceGuy]

[Tommycat]

Hi NiceGuy,
Good to see you again. :-)

Any bare wires would be of a concern certainly. The red one provides 5vdc supply power to the hall sensors. And the green one is the output of that particular hall sensor to the controller. Any short to ground or the case, as well as to other wires would be problematic. I would certainly verify the integrity (for shorting or open) of all the wires from the hall sensors PCB to the controller connections before replacing the sensor. Checking with the harness disconnected from the controller using an external 5vdc power source after replacing the defective wires, or covering the gaps with heat shrink tubing. For testing check out the helpful thread below...

http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...tor-controller

As far as the problematic charger/battery issue. For troubleshooting tips try the thread below...

http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...ctrical-issues


Regards,
T.C.

[TheNiceGuy]

Nice to see you TC! I’m going to look through that information.

[TheNiceGuy]

Ok TC, I followed those guides completely, not fixed.
As I mentioned before, the green Hal stays near 5v during the rotation test. Curiously, it never left 5v at all (No fluctuation) testing with the hub case off. The other 2 halls were as normal. I did not use a separate 5v source, just tested at the controller connector while connected normally. I am going to guess that the scooter worked just as long as it took for the wheel rotation to rub off some insulation on the red and green wires, which caused some kind of short and blew the green Hall sensor. I’m hoping protecting those wires and replacing that hall sensor will fix everything?
Charger hooked directly to controller would flash throttle led screen briefly, but could not even keep that going. However, hooking it up to a 40 W lightbulb, it allowed it to glow dimly and consistently.
i cant find anymore ways to test the BMS or charger. If there are none, I guess my best bet now is to order another charger and a similar BMS. I tried to find an identical BMS, but could not. Will any labeled “36 V 10S” work?
10S 36V (42V) 20A lithium ion battery BMS For 36V 10Ah E-bike li-ion batteries pack With the balance function 36V 20A BMS
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/dSdDcMs
Sometjing odd - for double the cost of the BMS, I could buy a whole new 36v 4400 pack (half the mah of the original, but ok). Strange thing is, there is no separate charge cable.
1pc 36V 4.4Ah 4400mah high drain 2 wheel electric scooter self balancing lithium battery pack for Self-balancing Fits 6.5" 7"
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bSZvX1gM
The charger looks easy enough to replace. Just a matter of the long wait for shipping times.
I hope the hall sensors I ordered are compatible.

[Tommycat]

I believe in always fixing the obvious first... So yes, replacing the green hall sensor and repairing the wiring will be a step in the right direction. SS41F is a well known and frequently used sensor for this purpose. But will it solve all the problems? :-0
Since the charger can't keep the display lit, I'm wondering what amp draw the system is taking? Is the battery removed from the system when you try to charge? Please give all the information on your charger and battery. (make, model, and specs.) So I can get a better picture of things. When your charger is lighting the bulb, how many amps are being output?

[TheNiceGuy]

Thanks TC. Everytime I try to measure amp draw from the charger, it sparks, shuts off, then turns on again about 5 seconds later, then repeats. Can’t get s reading like that.
Here’s some screen shots from the video with the rest of the information:

[Tommycat]

It appears you have a 10s, 36vdc nominal Li-Ion battery with BMS. Which would require a Li-Ion charger that should output 42vdc. As yours states 36vdc output, I suspect it's the wrong kind/type. Verify by checking the output voltage when it's not connected to anything.

Have you seen this on BMS's...?

http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...s-on-a-battery

[TheNiceGuy]

Yes, I checked the output voltage before, and it’s always a consistent 40.8v. I think the 36v/42v is the same thing, just labeling convention. Hooking it up to a 40w incandescent bulb, it lights it up, bulb gets quite hot, and maintains the 40.8v. No way to check amps with my tester, as the charger appears to overload and reset as soon as it touches. does this lightbulb test prove the charger is ok? If so, the BMS recharge feature is the only possible culprit. I should order one ASAP, as it will take quite a while to get here.
I’m reading through that BMS link.

BTW, I almost solved the 12v setup mystery:
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...oller-question

[TheNiceGuy]

Ok, reading the link here:
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...s-on-a-battery
hes lost me on how many balance wires are OK. My BMS has 10 in the plug, ones for sale appear to have 11. Some don’t say. Also, some have 2 vs 3 main wires exiting.
I have to watch how much screen time I use, as had problems with my eyes before. I don’t mind the work, but all this (often pointless) reading is too much. I’m reading and watching hours of content, a lot of it repetitious, and leaving out the crucial bits I need to know.

[Tommycat]

I'm thinking as the output of the charger with no load is less than the required 42vdc for a full charge. The cells would not be able to balance. That means some may be dropping low enough to keep the BMS from taking a charge. Check the individual cell groups to see if this has happened by checking them at the BMS connector. It's recommended to write them down and carefully compare them. Here's a diagram of a typical BMS wiring to get the points you need to check. (NOTE: this is for a 13s battery, but gives you the basic points) This would be good to know as if you have some that are too low, it would be time to get a new battery.

[TheNiceGuy]

Thanks TC, but I already did that back at post #2, at each BMS point, almost a perfect 3.8v each group.

[Tommycat]

Opps, sorry. 3.8 X 10 = 38vdc seems to add up OK. Did you try a hard reset by removing the connector then replacing it? There's also a "jump start" procedure mentioned in the troubleshooting procedures.

[TheNiceGuy]

Yes, I did those as well.
I want to illuminate the charger as a suspect. Since it lights the bulb with a consistent 40.8 V, does that mean it should be OK?

[Tommycat]

It seems to me that it's close enough to at least work... Do you get an output voltage when nothing is connected to it? And what amperage is it running at when powering the light? The ones like yours that I've seen have a 3 pin connector... Is the polarity correct between the new connector and the battery connector? If the last pic is of your chargers internals... blue is negative and brown is positive.