Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Need help on 36v scooter

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Red and blue wires show 40v. White is about 3.55v, green at 4.2.
    Got the cover off. Everything looks good. Tried cajoling the hall/magnet etc in various combos - no difference of any kind. Doesn’t kick in until past half the magnet sweep.
    All other led screen functions, menues etc etc appear to work well.
    How can I test the voltage draw of a brushless motor?
    What scenario would I use the self learning in?
    Last edited by TheNiceGuy; 03-07-2019, 05:32 AM.

    Comment


      #32
      If you've verified that the BLACK wire is battery ground. Test between it and the WHITE wire and see if you get typical hall sensor readings. Closed to WOT. If no change see which wire the voltage does vary on...
      CAREFUL with the high voltage potential available in there.

      Does the display offer the opportunity to change throttle types/setpoints?

      You mean amperage, wattage or current draw? Typically with a meter, or shunt with meter, in series with the negative wire going back to the battery.

      Self learn would be used with a new motor and/or controller pairing. It automatically will determine and set motor hall sensor locations to the correct motor wiring phases that's required by the controller for correct operation. Other wise you might have to use something like this...


      See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

      Comment


        #33
        Ok, I tried testing the values again, and they don’t seem to vary much at all. White stays about the same! I’m a little worried of doing too much poking around with my rudimentary equipment and conditions – I don’t want to short-circuit something again. My jamming of the probes into the sockets trying to avoid short-circuiting has stressed some of the pins a bit and I was getting cut out.
        This throttle has 3 speed levels that cap the max speed (for beginners etc). Great idea for the kids.
        I replaced a hall sensor in the hub motor, not sure if that would contribute to the anomaly?

        On the other forum one of the guys mentioned:
        “This is what controllers do when they cannot handle the eRPM of the motor. They act as an on/off switch.
        The effect gets worse, the higher the voltage goes.”
        I’m not familiar with eRpm, etc. It sounds like the answer would be to replace the controller? If this is the problem, the power output is the same, it’s just the throttle gradation that is affected? If this is the case, I may just leave well enough alone for now, so everyone can enjoy the scooter while we have time. If it proves to be an issue, I can try and track down a replacement controller.

        Comment


          #34
          This looks like an identical throttle, although I’m not sure about the controller. A customer feedback photo shows low break, whereas mine is high break. I’m having trouble getting details specific enough to match up buy a new controller.
          | Ebike Brushless Controller Electric Bicycle 24V 36V 48V 250W/350W Brushless Controller With LCD Display with Shift Switch
          https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/3VWNtFS
          Last edited by TheNiceGuy; 03-08-2019, 05:25 AM.

          Comment


            #35
            It looks to me that your not even working on a true throttle. From the description which states "shift switch" and the lack of voltage variance in the wiring. Perhaps a display type wiring only. Typically...Battery Power +, 5vdc +, Battery ground, TX and RX for communication. Never seen a throttle by communication. PAS power settings yes. It also states that the display can set a few operational parameters. Got to find the manual! Does this have pedals? Is there a twist grip throttle on the handle bars with hidden wires? More information on the scooter...

            Use straight pins for easier access to back probing connectors. Aligator clips are nice, there's even electronic clip types too to grab the pins.

            Does it look like the controller has been replaced?

            See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

            Comment


              #36
              Hi TC, I posted the scooter link on the other forum, and forgot to post it here. I bought mine used off another site, but it looks identical to this, other than that it has no seat, and it has a double size battery.
              https://item.rakuten.co.jp/gottsupri...dou-kick-scct/

              The controller link above for AliExpress, i’d take the item description with a rock of salt.
              Mine came with no documentation of any kind, and searching for serial numbers showed up nothing more than the information I could find on that page link above. It appears the throttle is a generic one that perhaps can be custimized for different vehicles. The controller ID led me to a Chinese site, all in Chinese, with no more information than some similar looking controllers currently for sale.
              not sure if the throttle was replaced, but I kind of doubt it: as it appears the scooter was used very little and then resold.
              thanks for the tip about sewing pins.
              Last edited by TheNiceGuy; 03-09-2019, 06:13 AM.

              Comment


                #37
                Thanks for the link! That helps a lot. Well sort of. Nice to see what your working on. You mentioned earlier that you tried moving the throttle's hall sensor and magnet... Can you some how get readings from there or close to it? Looking for ~1 to ~4vdc output with throttle twist. With 5vdc in.
                See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

                Comment


                  #38
                  The hall sensor 3 prongs are exposed iirc. Soldered into board. But not colored/labeled.
                  i measured each pin, grounding on black outlet wire, following values throughout the throttle arc. No variance on the last until the deadband ends.
                  (4.3v, 3.6mv, 20-160mv)
                  Last edited by TheNiceGuy; 03-10-2019, 05:33 AM.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    A surface mount hall effect sensor with it's output in mv. And controlling via communication. Something new! Can you read the part stamp on the sensor so the output can be verified good or bad?

                    Here are the terminal designations of board sensors with more typical outputs of 1-4vdc.






                    Regular if I misunderstood...



                    Double check again the sensor's output and input voltages using the sensor's ground terminal if you could.
                    See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      I was not grounding from the sensor, so I’ll try that. All this fiddling caused the wires to cut power. I’ll have to cut the connector off and solder. Hopefully it’ll still work. Can’t work on it anymore tonight, so will try later.
                      btw, what was that guy talking about with “eRPM”?

                      Comment


                        #41
                        A picture answers a lot of questions. Nice. Is that white stuff water or moisture residue? Might want to just replace the bad connector with another type connector set? (ever have to disconnect?)

                        The sensors label printing is on the side facing the magnet, smaller flat side. And the pin-out will be reversed as your looking at the back side, wider flat side.


                        The eRPM question is a bit above my pay grade... ;-) Something like the controller's electronic control speed (in eRPM) has to be faster than the motor's needs. See this thread as an example.

                        https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34092

                        If you have the original controller installed on your scooter, I doubt this would be an issue. Especially if your hub is direct drive with no gearing.
                        Last edited by Tommycat; 03-10-2019, 01:52 PM.
                        See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Can’t seem to see any writing on the sensor. Doesn’t matter now anyways as the last round of tests caused a short-circuit probably, as I just finished soldering everything up and it will not turn on now at all. I’ll have to order another throttle now, do the waiting game, and hope there’s no damage to the controller etc. I have to cut the new throttles plugs as well, as it I’ve already cut the old plugs, and hope I don’t short something while soldering.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Rats, a step backward. Do you still have any of the power readings at the splice like you had before? Do you plan on connecting the new throttle to the display pcb? Or is there wiring coming from the controller that you plan to use?
                            See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

                            Comment


                              #44

                              Ok. Good news. During the autopsy I found a second pulled wire, so after very difficult board soldering, I got everything working again.
                              I did the hall test, but don’t have 4 hands so could not pull the throttle. I tested 0%, and then clamped the throttle switch at 100% and tested. I got :
                              (1mv / 3.62v) left pin, (4.3v / 4.3v) right pin.
                              As it was, the probe slipped twice and then I shorted the hall contacts and it caused the motor to stop momentarily. Everything appears to be OK though.

                              The white stuff is a Vaseline like substance smeared all over the circuitboard and switch. No moisture in there.
                              Last edited by TheNiceGuy; 03-13-2019, 07:01 AM.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Whew! Great save! I love autopsies... So if we are on the same page, the left pin when looking at it backwards would be the "0" or output leg. And typically a linear hall sensor will be putting out .8vdc (800 mv) at the 0% position. So if it's starting there, it makes some sense that a good part of the throttle action voltage output may be lower than needed to get the controller to output power to the motor. Would be nice to have the sensor numbers... but as is I would recommend replacement of the throttle's hall sensor after double checking that the 1mv reading wasn't actually 1 vdc. ;-)
                                See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X