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Pumps vs Co2 inflators?

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks for the info. For some reason tubeless hasn't caught on in this forum AFAIK. Putting tubeless sealer in tubes is popular. Schwalbe recently started offering it too. maybe we're just converting older bikes that have the rims for it?

  • Snowcrow19
    replied
    Originally posted by 73Eldo View Post
    I wonder if a C02 even has the volume you really need to seat a tubeless tire. My limited experience with the co2 is there isn't a lot of volume there so you add the leakage you get before its even close to seating is there enough left to actually seat it. Like many bike things maybe works with a road bike? Low volume and typically a pretty tight fit to start with? I also have no first hand experience with tubeless bike tires other than cleaning the mess off used rims and tires I have bought.
    I've seen it done on a 29 x 2.6 but any bigger plus-size tire would likely be a gamble! (Wheel also had insert)

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  • 73Eldo
    replied
    I wonder if a C02 even has the volume you really need to seat a tubeless tire. My limited experience with the co2 is there isn't a lot of volume there so you add the leakage you get before its even close to seating is there enough left to actually seat it. Like many bike things maybe works with a road bike? Low volume and typically a pretty tight fit to start with? I also have no first hand experience with tubeless bike tires other than cleaning the mess off used rims and tires I have bought.

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  • Snowcrow19
    replied
    If you're running tubeless and break the bead on a tire, a CO2 cartridge is likely the only way you'll reseat it.

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  • 73Eldo
    replied
    Another sign that perhaps the battery inflators are maybe crap is that none of the bicycle specific places I frequent sell them. Only places that sell them are places that sell general crap. You would think if they were decent products and sellers places that sell bike stuff would be able to find a decent one and sell them. They don't even sell any non portable home versions.

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  • Retrorockit
    commented on 's reply
    I have something worse than goatheads for repeat flats. Steel wires from blown steel belted truck tires.They can get spread for miles, and you can't see them. They can get embedded in the flat protection layer of a tire and can't be felt from the inside or out. They cause a slow leak that makes you think you might get home with a CO2 cartridge, but usually just waste a cartridge. I've had to chain my bike to a pole and walk away from it, and dispose of the infected tire due to unknown number of steel splinters.
    I'm with Stan's etc. in the tube, no flat protection in the tire itself, and a thick Tannus liner in the rear for many reasons other than flat protection. I think the sealant can handle these tiny leaks on it's own. The Tannus just seems to be a better version of the flat protection layer with some damping and suspension qualities as a bonus.

  • AZguy
    commented on 's reply
    For motos I'd get the cheap electric pumps and take the innards out. They are very small, about the size of a fist and I'd just wrap them in a rag.

    Unfortunately they are 12V - maybe it's worth doing a buck converter...

    I think we all know what I think of the CO2 systems ;-}

  • 73Eldo
    replied
    Last year I finally bought a C02 setup. Not long after I got it I had a flat but of course notice I said bought A unit and I have 2 bikes I ride often I bet you can guess the rest. Earlier this year I bought a 2nd set and today I got a flat and got to try it out. I knew it would take 2 carts to get to a reasonable pressure. First one went well and got enough air in that I was able to roll the tire to help center the bead on the rim. Got the 2nd cart and started screwing it in and woosh. No idea what I did wrong but out comes the pump and 1000 pumps later I'm back on the road.

    This is what I ended up with. https://www.genuineinnovations.com/c...-tire-inflator Didn't seem to have any issues with the cold even on the 2nd one that went wrong. Does look like maybe they were expecting that in the design because the logo in the canister part is open so it didn't explode. No idea what went wrong or how the first one went right. I'm using their genuine thread less carts. So do I carry more? Like 4? at $6 each it adds up. Maybe start carrying a whole spare bike? Where does it end?

    I am wondering about electric again. Seems like there are more out there now but I read what was said earlier in this thread and I forgot about the battery going dead from non use issue I thought of last time. Maybe a tool brand/battery model so the battery gets used for other things? I do have M12 tools but their compact inflator is still pretty big. Anyone find one that will run in the 52v range?

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  • MaxXedition
    replied
    I'll jump into this older thread. I have used C02 for 20 plus years. It inflates fast. None of these useless mini pumps that take a 1000 strokes, or if they pump in both directions are are just plain hard to pump.
    C02 cartridges come in 12g, 16g and 24g sizes (why has no one mentioned this?). Use the size that is applicable to your use. Skinny road bike tires I have always used 12g cartridges. Mtn bike 26x2.0 tires I use 16g cartridges. I would think these 3-4" wide tires & 24g cartridges would be best. Sometimes it takes more than one cartridge. I carry 24g cartridges on my m/c.
    Practice at home!! At one point or another you will blow/waste a cartridge. It happens. Yes they are cold. I think I have only done presta valves, not schrader.

    Changing tubes seems to be a lost art (to do correctly). Goat heads are nasty and can ruin a tire. A tire HAS to be rubbed/felt inside by your fingers or a cloth to see what is protruding through the tire which caused the flat in the first place, or you will have an immediate follow up flat. You could have multiple goat heads (usually). They can break off on the inside yet they will protrude through again if not pulled with pliers from the exterior. ...Time consuming & probably won't happen by the side of the road. Don't forget to push down your valve stem & pull it back for no 'snake bite' flats!... All my friends have had issues running tubeless - I will stick to tubes on a bicycle. Tubeless on a m/c is good though.
    Repeated flats are usually operator error IMO.
    Flat tire/tube replacement 101.

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  • AZguy
    commented on 's reply
    FWIW for the motos I'd just get any old 12V pump from wally world or wherever and take it out of the outer plastic case and wrap it in a rag - the guts are very small and it's a very compact setup for carry that way

  • CPG
    replied
    Just searched Amazon for a cheap 12 VDC compressor, and got one (among many) that seems to be the same size as my old 52 VDC one, to fit my fatbike, and while I was at it, went all out and also got a 48-60 VDC to 12 VDC converter, for $18.00. Imay also play around and see how this compressor works off the Sur Ron's horn leads, which I'm told are 12 VDC but have never verified.

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  • CPG
    replied
    Hey I've learned more about the different (or are they the same??) expansion rates of gases and how temperture and altitude can change them (if they do??) than I had planned on. If one doesn't like what someone else posts, just move on, no need to diss others.

    My own air schemes are this:
    My bike kept in the crane, I have a 12 volt pump, not to mention (now that I think about it...) air brakes/air tank at 140 PSI, 50' of airline and an air chuck, guess I use the 12 volt as I can get it out quicker. Nothing else for that bike as it's just a town rider.

    My rocky and rough remote area (relatively) fat bike riding: nothing, tubeless and Stans seems to work, over 3500 miles, but I am pushing my luck probably. My backup plan is to start walking, Ok if not cold and have the daylight, which most of my riding with it has/is.

    The Montague (relatively skinny, tubed tires) I carry in the plane, where weight is critical: I had my first flike (flight/ride) with it last week, into an area 30 miles from the closet ranch house, and no cell service. After landing in the brush I rode up a very steep and rocky trail up a canyon for 3 miles, before realizing I had failed to bring ANY backup air or tube. Didn't need it, coulda walked out, but yesterday I loaded my kit with my usual two C02 catridges and filler (finding one wasn't the threaded end type my filler needed, oops) and a brand new tube. NO patch kit, the one time I needed it, it was very windy and getting late, and no water around to find the leak, wished I would have just had a new tube. I may throw a patch kit in just in case, they don't weigh anything.

    The plane has big fat tires, 4 PSI, think beach balls, tubeless by design, and I carry a 12 volt compressor, never used yet luckily, as I land a lot of very remote top of mountains/ridges that are rocky, also a big hole patch kit. The last ditch backup to all this is a PLB. a SAT based locater beacon, if it comes down to life or death.

    Luna used to sell a 52 VDC air compressor, I had one for several years and it was great, I even built a custom holder for it on the fattie. It quit one day, I would like to buy another, it was cheap enough, 40 or 50 bucks I think. That's what we really need, we're packing big ass batteries around already after all.

    There is this: https://www.banggood.com/IMars-Enusi...ouse=CN&ID=223 The question being, how long it would last run off 48-52 VDC as that is how I would use it. For the price, even if it worked once or twice....
    Last edited by CPG; 05-29-2022, 09:26 AM.

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  • Retrorockit
    replied
    I carry both a pump and a CO2 rig. If some punk walks off with my pump I'm OK. But you need 1 C02 to locate the leak, another to blow the tube up a little to patch it, and maybe another to finish inflating the tire. BTW I also carry a spare tube to avoid all of it. Then 1 CO2 and I'm done.
    AZ guys trick of Stan's filled inner tubes seems to have worked for the annoying pinhole leaks I would get every now and then. Mostly wire shards from blown out steel belted tires.

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  • DiggyGun
    replied
    I’ve got this one, which is screw on and has an outer protection sleeve.

    Got it from Amazon.
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B017KU1D...17CBDKQWQCK8R0 Click image for larger version

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  • TNC
    replied
    Quote from Diggs Ut..."Dude - Really? No wonder others don't like to play here........"

    I'm not getting your take on that statement. AZ didn't and hasn't in my estimation had any habit of making disrespectful posts on discussion matters. Being open and frank with supportive information isn't hateful or mean. Having a difference of opinion on something like CO2 cartridges and their application is nothing to get one's shorts in a wad over. And on another note, perhaps one should look up the word "preference". While there are clearly "facts" contained in both Diggs' and AZ's comments on CO2 and pumps, a lot of it comes down to preference for one's given situation. Diggs, you stated that CO2 carts are "better than sliced bread". Well...is that wheat or white...or rye...or pumpernickel?

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